TILDA SWINTON INTERVIEW

Irreverent British star Tilda Swinton blew into town to speak at a symposium honoring the very likewise daring late French screen actress, Delphine Seyrig. The occasion is the Billy Rose Tribute to Delphine Seyrig, DELPHINE SEYRIG: VARIATIONS ON AN ENIGMA, a retrospective which will take place at MOMA's Gramercy Theater through November 21st.
We caught up with the resplendant redhead at a cocktail party following the opening symposium. Tilda, who is perhaps best known for her fabulously uncommon portrayal of sexual ambiguity in the Virginia Woolf adapted film Orlando, warmed up to some wild and wonderful conversation at the scene of this party and interview. Tilda will also soon be seen in Spike Jonze's upcoming Adaptation, which stars Nicolas Cage and Meryl Streep.

Why did you want to be part of this symposium dedicated the late French actress Delphine Seyrig?

TILDA SWINTON: Because I was invited. And it felt like there might be things I could contribute. Very often people talk about artists, and forget to talk to people who are working in the same way. Or in the same field.
And Delphine's impact is not just on viewers, or even on filmmakers and directors, but also on performers. And I thought that maybe I might have something to contribute. I knew Delphine at the end of her life, very briefy.
But I certainly wanted to be there in the audience. And The Museum Of Modern Art was kind enough to buy me a ticket from Scotland to New York, for me to be present and to hear the other people speak. So that was my itinerary, and it felt like a good one.

How much are you influenced by other performers?

TS: I take very little from other actors, to be honest with you. I'm not sure that many people take much from actors. What they really need is people. And you have to have the nerve and intelligence to try not to be an actress, as much as you possibly can. And to be, you know, a person.
So that's what I feel that I connect with, when I'm in the audience. The most important thing to strive for, is to never look like an actress. Just always look like a person. And that's exactly what Delphine achieved.

That type of aquired state seems almost like an art in itself. Do you learn how to do that, or is it something you attain by just being interested in people, and looking at people?

TS: I do believe that about people. I don't really think that acting in movies has any place. Performance is what we should be talking about. But I do think there's a whole distraction about acting.
And that actors get involved with that, which very often stops the audience from being able to really connect with people. And be very impressed by, and very awe inspired by the acting. But I'm not sure what use an actor is to an audience.
So the first thing one has to try and make sure one doesn't look like, is an actor. And Delphine did that. Absolutely. Preeminently, I would say. It may actually be smoke and mirrors, I don't know. But I think it wasn't. She did bring herself, and represent herself absolutely in her work.
A French actress like Bridget Bardot during her time, also had something very specific, and very real about her. She works a little more with the idea of someone struggling to be relaxed, and struggling to be real. But still, she's there. I mean, you're talking about a big star. They do feel like people to me.

And how do you feel that you yourself achieve that?

TS: I'm not sure that I do. But I know that I'd like to! I certainly know that I don't know anything about acting. And that's a good start!

What do you think were some of the biggest obstacles for actresses back in Seyrig's time, that women have striven to overcome?

TS: There were some things that women of that era could not do, the obstacles were simply too great. And that was to find their own voice as a person outside of their work. Because of course, one's voice as an artist is exercised mainly within one's choices.
When you're talking about an actress, most actresses don't work in a generative way with filmmakers. You know, they don't sit around a kitchen table and think of projects to do, they wait for people to ask them to do things.
So their choices are such an important part of their creative process. And in many cases, more so than the work they actually do in a film. The decision to make a film is an enormous part of an actress' creative choice.
So of course an actress exercises that element of her voice, the choice and the building up of a cinematic identity. And that is very much tied into the time in which you live. And that paved the way for actresses coming later, myself included.
And people who pioneer such territories, particularly women, always find it difficult, and always find - you know when they're stretching the elastic - that it always springs back in their faces.
And the icon of feminine beauty can be an extremely powerful and dangerous thing. But when you are determined to work beyond that and through it, any patriarchal market that is interested preeminently in feminine beauty is not going to buy that, and finds it very alienating.
So if you come out and speak very clearly in your own voice, you're cold shouldered. And you do not have what is called a marketable talent. You don't fit in. And Seyrig had an absolutely formed will of her own. She was an original. And originals always take the rap.

What are you up to next, following Adaptation?

TD: I'm hoping to make a film with Alain Resnais. It won't be this year, but I hope it's next year. Resnais is still a great radical, even at the age of 80. He's still interested in working choreographically, and working in long shot.
And that's a wonderful liberation for a performer, who is trying to put humanity up there, and not artifice. And who is trying to work, if you like, democratically within the frame. There are many actors who would for instance, somehow pull so much focus in the act of spooning a potato onto a plate, that it would be somehow mesmerizing.
You know, it would be the only thing you could look at. And it would somehow be more important than the chair in the foreground. Or more important than the light coming through the window.
The art is to use natural intelligence to take your natural place within the frame, and to know what the frame is. And appreciating and understanding the way in which artists frame work. That informs your work as a performer.

Do you see a distinct difference with Hollywood films?

TS: Almost any film that's ever made these days is a Hollywood film, if it's looking to compete in the market.

With the focusing on faces today so much as talking heads in movies, we are losing the sense of the actor as a person in the setting.

TS: That's television. And also the addiction to the idea of drama. Which is in my view, that people are sincere all the time. You know, they only say one thing, and they only ever mean the thing they're saying.
And that it's impossible for them to actually react to the space they're in, and to make choices about what they're going to say to each other. Or what they're going to do, or the way they're going to operate around objects.

It gives no room for amibvalence.

TS: Absolutely. And it gives no room - and this is my personal soapbox, if you like - it give no room for inarticulacy. It's all articulate.

And the music on the soundtrack always tells the audience what to feel.

TS: Of course. Because the audience - and this is not what the audience believes, let's remember that. It's what the marketeers need, to have some spurious sense of confidence in what the audience wants. Because they have to be able to sell that, over and over again. So they have to package it. I think we're talking about capitalism, to be honest.

What do you feel is the most important attribute of a performer, as seen with Delphine?

TS: Not to necessarily be fearless or devoid of fear, but to be chock full of courage. That's the most important thing.

Prairie Miller