The Golden Compass Pointing Toward Controversy?
Summary
Magic-loving moviegoers who have thrilled to the twists and turns of such tween-friendly literary adaptations as The Chronicles of Narnia and the Harry Potter series will have their pick of sorcerous films this fall, including The Seeker: The Dark Is Rising and The Golden Compass. Plenty of controversy, too, if the past is any indication -- and oh look, here's some already! Back to Article
Magic-loving moviegoers who have thrilled to the twists and turns of such tween-friendly literary adaptations as The Chronicles of Narnia and the Harry Potter series will have their pick of sorcerous films this fall, including The Seeker: The Dark Is Rising and The Golden Compass. Plenty of controversy, too, if the past is any indication -- and oh look, here's some already! Back to Article
(1-128 of 128 posts) | Reply
on Aug 21 2007 08:14 AM Oh joy, more anti-catholicism in movies. How original... Can't Hollywood find something besides the Bush administration or the catholic church to bash. It's really old by now. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 08:16 AM Cry me a river. It's the caveat of fantasy that people see it as so ripe for commentary. Philip Pullman's trilogy just so happens to include some jabs at overzealous religious types, but so does - oh I don't know - why don't you name me a major work of fantastical fiction in the last century that doesn't! And I love how it's always the Catholics that get offended. Why is it automatically assumed that the Catholic church is the intended target, and not fundamentalist religions? Are we not allowed to write stories about kidnapping clergymen without having it be "anti-Catholic?" Must all witches be evil? Are we in the thirteenth century? Where does a film critic get off calling a movie blasphemous without having seen it? Pisses me off. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 08:20 AM "kidnapping children and conducting some rather unpleasant experiments on them." That sounds about right. Just add the word molestation and you've got everything covered. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 08:20 AM Angels ARE sexually ambiguous, according to Christianity. Actually angels have no sex at all. Whatever. His Dark Materials is an atheist's Chronicles of Narnia, I always say. While I am a Christian myself, I don't mind an atheist writing his or her perspective on the world in this way. I think it's sad, but it's interesting as an art form. If I were a parent wanting to teach my children my faith, I would explain to them the difference. Big deal. Good grief, people, have some faith in your faith! (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 08:31 AM In reply to this comment (#1059194) And, as somebody who's read the books, I can safely say that they are not anti-Catholic. However, if you go into it with a bad attitude, looking to be offended, then you'll find something. And THIS is the thing that gets me angry; people who want to be offended because they want to feel victimized. As if a fantasy film is really going to shatter their world and make them a laughing stock, as if it is personally attacking them. Have we not heard of allegory? Phillip Pullman's stories use conventions of the church as a framework for fantasy, just like C.S. Lewis did with "Narnia." What sickens me is that certain Catholics think that they own the concept of angels, or clergy, or witches, and that anything that puts a different spin on these concepts than what they're used to is "blasphemous." Just because the book includes theological symbolism does not mean it is blasphemous. Just because the book is concerned with issues that concern Catholics does not mean it is heretical. Just because characters in the book that belong to a church do terrible things does not automatically make it anti-church. Must every clergyman portrayed in fiction be good? No! Can we just get over ourselves? (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 08:40 AM Boo hoo, so the Catholic Church gets beat up in a movie. Well, they are one of the most powerful groups on the planet. Why should they be worried by a couple of movies? Large institutions are often portrayed as antagonistic in books and movies. Do people (other than a few wackos) claim that a movie about the Vietnam War is "Anti-American"? Or a movie where the government spies on it's own people (which isn't really fiction these days) like Enemy of the State? (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 08:43 AM Witherwings, you are an anchor of reason. I do think it is natural for people to become emotionally charged over the issue of religion. I've read all the books, and I enjoyed them. But Pullman's stories are provocative, whether intentionally or unintenionally, and people are going to respond to that. I don't think most people (including Catholics) mind having certain Catholics be villainous. But Pullman's overall message will make some people uncomfortable and they have a right to respond accordingly. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 08:50 AM For those idiots who seem to revel in catholic bashing, where are you when hollywood continuously caters to islamonazi fanatics? when was the last time a muslim was the bad guy in a movie? cant do that, because muslims might go ape**** and kill people. catholics, well they just "cry" about it on Fox News. am i right? (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 08:50 AM They certainly have a right to be uncomfortable, but the problem is that they're so many people think that uncomfortable = blasphemous. Just because something makes you uncomfortable doesn't mean it's morally wrong, it just means it doesn't accord with what you're used to thinking. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 08:59 AM MrSnuggles, that has to be the single most ignorant statement I've ever read. First of all, Muslims are "bad guys" in movies ALL THE TIME. Second of all, MOST Muslims are not violent at all, and despite your narrow-minded views, they don't want to blow up buildings and kill people. Those are only the very, very small percent of Muslims, known as the Muslim Extremists. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 09:11 AM Actually, I've read all the books, and anit-catholic might be a little harsh. Now if you were to say anti-church in general well that would be more. But it really only gets really anti-god and whatnot in the last book. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 09:18 AM How about "The Kingdom" coming out in a couple of weeks? Muslim bad guys there. How about that one season of 24? I can name more, but I'll stop. The reason for Catholic / Christian bad guys is probably because the writers are more comfortable writing about Catholics / Christians than they are writing about Muslims, a religion they might not know that much about outside of some prevalent stereotypes. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 09:21 AM In reply to this comment (#1059330) Yes, the last book was very preachy in its anti-God message (But so is C.S. Lewis in its pro-God message! Art should not be censored according to its message in a free society.). It's funny to me that they're getting so worked up over this. The anti-church bias, which is probably the more correct label, didn't phase me; I hardly noticed it. I guess I'm saying that if THIS bothers them, wait until the third movie hits the screens. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 09:25 AM My step mom is Catholic and loves the books. They're really a commentary on fanatical religion in general and how they oppose progress and knowledge. And sorry to say, but that's not even really an opinion. Throughout history, fanatical religions have always opposed new ideas and progressivism. Always have, always will. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 09:27 AM You're right. I agree that it's anti-god rhetoric Kenny, the last book in particular. I found them to be well written and thoroughly entertain, though I am a Christian. I knew from the onset that Pullman is a secular guy, and his stories reflect it. He has a particular outlook and writes from that perspective, the same as Kurt Vonnegut, or C.S. Lewis for that matter. But the moment he released his stories to the public, the public has a right to respond. If people think the stories are blasphemous, fair enough. They should have the right to say so without being called idiots or whatever else. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 09:31 AM In reply to this comment (#1059343) Yeah, the Enlightenment and the Renaissance, sheesh, all that religious art was so backwards. And Plato was such an atheist... And then Hitler and Mussolini and Stalin were such wonderful Christians. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 09:52 AM For the record, I'm pretty sure Stalin was an atheist. And based on their lives, I don't think Hitler or Mussolini were Christians, at least not in the sense that they were followers of Christ. Politically. But that doesn't mean much. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 10:02 AM Exactly, jaqu7. My last comment was riddled with sarcasm, in response to Xylem's statement that religion equals regression of thought. I am not arguing that religion equals PROgression of thought, now, I am only pointing out the fallacy of Xylem's statement. Via sarcasm. Sorry about the confusion. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 10:12 AM I actually have read His Dark Materials several times since they are one of my favorite series. I would say that they are anti-church and anti-god but that they do not specifically target the Catholic Church. The Church in The Golden Compass is assumed to be the Catholic Church but it is never mentioned by name therefore could be any church. The books do not reach their ultimate church-bashing until they arrive at the third book entitled The Amber Spyglass. This book deals with a dark angel, Metatron, the death of God and chaos in heaven. Most importantly, God is said not to be the original creator of Heaven and Earth and rather more of a Napolean-like figure from the book Animal Farm. You can see why they are touchy subjects with the Church. However, this is fiction and furthermore fantasy so everyone should just take all of this with a grain of salt. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 10:20 AM Gotcha. Sorry I didn't pick up on the sarcasm Wither. My bad. (Reply to this) |
on Aug 21 2007 10:45 AM Hopefully this movie will be really popular and some people can become atheists at a young age. It's so hard to get anyone to change their beliefs once they hit a certain point in their life. A movie like this could have children second guessing things and asking questions. Hopefully. I've only read the first book in this series. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 11:04 AM Hmm... Interesting Scarborough. I think the movie will be popular. I'm certainly going to see it. I doubt it will impact people's core beliefs though, even for kids, at least if the kids have sensible parents around who are willing to explain that movies shouldn't be what people base their beliefs on. (Top shelf humor though. Nicely done.) (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 11:31 AM I have a feeling this movie will inspire Exactly the same number of viewers to become Atheists as were inspired to become Christians by "The Witch and The Wardrobe," or to Paganism by "Harry Potter." Let%u2019s face it, these are the author's views set in a Fantasy realm of his own creating, nothing more. If that damages your perception of your own faith than obviously your faith was not terribly strong in the first place. Now, if this was a documentary about religion and the evils committed in that name, I could understand some groups being outraged. But this is simply idle escapism. Take it as such and you will be much happier in the end. I can tell you what all this controversy will generate: Ticket Sales. Makes you wonder who is stirring the pot. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 12:18 PM I disagree that controversy will generate sales in this case. Christians likely to be offended by this type of film aren't the sort to go just to see what all the fuss is about. Parents looking for a good movie for their kids, who happen to see that there may be something controversial, will avoid it and go see something else. Only young adults and the over-politicized who want to discuss religion on movie forums will go see it for the controversy. Personally I think it will under-perform, at least in America. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 02:16 PM As a catholic I must say I'm slightly offended by this. The reason being that although they don't mention the Catholic Church by name, the evil organization in this movie is known as the Magisterium. The Magisterium is a technical term in Roman Catholic Church referring to the teaching authority of the Catholic church. How is this not singling out one Church? (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 02:53 PM It's absolutely horrifying that a significant portion of the population and the media still think in these terms. "Witches who aren't wicked"? Seriously? What century is this again? All allegory and ideologies are fair game, especially when it comes to a genre like high fantasy. It's really funny how the media doesn't blow up over every movie with allegorical Christian heroes and demonized occult/pagan villains. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 03:06 PM In reply to this comment (#1059320) typical leftist. of course not all muslims are terrorists, but every terrorist is a muslim. to the contrary, every catholic priest is a child molestor, according to the leftist tripe we see in every nook and cranny of hollywood. and please, lets not pretend that muslims are bad guys on tv and in movies. THEY ARENT. not one movie out there questions islam or its leaders the way catholicism and mormonism havea been challenged constantly. but hey, its easy to understand. muslims respond with violence, christians dont. lefties just happen to be spineless. (Reply to this) |
on Aug 21 2007 03:47 PM In reply to this comment (#1059194) Ditto. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 03:53 PM Here's a link to Philip Pullman's website (he's the author of the books, in case you were wondering) regarding his religious views. htt It seems he is an atheist, although I read in another interview that he often thinks of himself as an agnostic. Whatever. As someone pointed out earlier, if these stories are shaking the foundation of your faith, you need to get off of the sand and onto a rock. (Wasn't that some Bible song taught in Sunday school? I can't remember.) In any case, I found these books to be wonderful. I'm Christian, although I like to keep an open mind. 'His Dark Materials' is thought-provoking and powerful...what I like in a book. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 04:04 PM Sorry about the double post. Hm, while I was on that page about Pullman, I found this, which I thought was interesting....it's from a FAQ of sorts... Question: You have run into criticism from certain religious groups who regard you as subversive, with the Catholic Herald describing your work as 'worthy of the bonfire.' Do such emotional responses concern or upset you or does it please you to generate strong reactions? Answer: I'm delighted to have brought such excitement into what must be very dull lives. I like his point. There's no need to grab your torch and pitchfork--people need to ease up a bit and enjoy the book for what it is...an engrossing story wonderfully told. (Reply to this) |
on Aug 21 2007 04:14 PM Wow. Can't religious and non-religious people BOTH entertain the existence of BOTH sides? Jeez...they don't have to agree with them, they just have to acknowledge that both sides do, in fact, exist in the same world in which we all live. Everyone just needs to deal with it. Regardless, I love His Dark Materials. And, from everything I've seen/read/heard about the screen adaption, it looks excellently done. I'll be in the theaters this winter. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 04:54 PM Religion should be ridiculed at every possible occasion,it is the refuge of the fearfull and ignorant and until it is done with and everyone finally comes to their senses there will always be misery on this planet,so stick it to them all,not just the Catholics... (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 05:42 PM "It has been watered down a little...I was raised Catholic, the Catholic Church is part of my essence," Kidman said. "I wouldn't be able to do this film if I thought it were at all anti-Catholic." so even if she finds out that the catholic church has supported the holocaust, has mass abused of children, burnt women alive because they have different opinions, burnt people alive for saying that the earth is not the center of the universe, cause wars, encourage people to get sick by speaking against condons and other nice things like that, then she would still defend it? that's just stupid (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 06:26 PM I'm pretty fed up of Religion having a whine. What about us atheists? Why should we have to endure another message of Religion, when we have made our own choice against it. Surely that's just as offensive as any anti-religious spiels? Those books are fairly anti-Religion, as mentioned, not Catholic specific. That article went on to say the church may be called 'The Magisterium' or something in a similar vain. So essentially, they've euphemised the Church. The thing that gets me also is that these books have been around for ages, why does controversy come around now when its made into a film? Is it because children are more likely to see it? To cut the Church out of this film is like taking away a child's daemon. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 07:05 PM Come on, take your slaps in the face like a good Catholic. How easy it must be to be offended by works of fiction. Jeebus forbid if they ever movify the Hyperion books. That will give you kneeling bastards something to cry about. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 07:29 PM This film is as much a work of fantastical fiction as the Bible. They are not mutually exclusive. Simply enjoy them(or don't enjoy them) as respective works of art(or myth). To try and differentiate the two by implying that one of them has a more valid claim to truth or reality than the other - is pointless. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 07:52 PM Well I'm going on a limb and say the bible is a better read. Got to give Christians some credit for that. I don't see anyone starting a religion on these Dark Materials books anytime soon or at the very least, something just as insane like Pottermania. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 07:54 PM sorry? what? who? catholics?? Controvery? oh nevermind (Reply to this) |
on Aug 21 2007 08:30 PM Thanks for your opionions Jeff Giles. As wrong as they are. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 08:52 PM Bugger everyone! It's been watered downand it's still controversial? I hate this world... (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 08:59 PM In reply to this comment (#1061603) Saiga6360, While I haven't read the Dark Materials novels, I will wholeheartedly agree that the Bible is an amazingly fascinating creation - of fiction, a work of fiction with a multitude of authors contributing to it and refining it over the course of millennia and with the socio-economic backing of a caste with sometimes dubious if not altogether political motives. Given the same amount of time and resources, and it's use of a messianic child with otherworldly powers, whose to say the Potter novels wouldn't have claimed a similar place in history. Also, the Jews may have a possible argument with you about giving sole credit for the Bible to Christians, let's give credit where credit is due. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 21 2007 09:15 PM The difference being that the catholic church earns its criticism, by and far. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 22 2007 03:00 AM "Even a pair of sexually ambiguous angels" Let it be known henceforth that all angels shall be required to wear "No Fat Chicks" t-shirts and have at least one scene in which they are boning a drunk college student of the opposite gender!! Shame on the film makers! clergymen who kidnap children? Please, everyone knows that the child's parents BRING them to church to be molested, no kidnapping is required. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 22 2007 05:38 AM I know but I didn't want to drag the Jews into this thread. Now we got ourselves a Jerusalemfest. As for clergymen and children... it's amazing but I know of some Catholic parents who are so into their priests that they simply cannot do no wrong and even blame the children. How queer and saddening. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 22 2007 08:16 AM It should be pointed out that the Church in the Golden Compass is not actually Catholic. This is revealed in many ways, but the most obvious being the fact that: a) John Calvin became 'pope' b) The center, or new Rome if you will, is Geneva c) It is run by the consistorial court All of these and many others should clue the reader into the fact that it is really Calvinism, not Catholicism, at work. Now, clearly it resembles Catholicism because it has the whole 'Church Universal' thing going, and in that way it is meant to make a sharp attack on universal authoritarian religion. Choosing Calvinism as the actual religion is an interesting move, though since ol' John Calvin was a puritanical, activist religious fanatic, who just happened to found one of the most important reforming religions in history. And then you get to toy with the idea of pre-destination too, which is interesting considering Pullman's stance on God being "The Authority" My point, though, is simple. It is not specifically Catholicism under attack here, but aspects of many religions. The structure of the Catholic church during its height is what is attacked here, but not the religion itself. And trust me, if they are all really Calvinists, then the two sects are quite different in belief, practice and worship. Wikipedia John Calvin, you'll see what I mean. (Reply to this) |
on Aug 23 2007 08:42 AM I don't mind atheists nor do I mind movies like this, but what I do mind is some of the idiots in this Thread who think religion is the cause of all evil in the world. What nonsense is that? You think if we eliminate all religions everywhere that this will impact the amount of rape, murder, and theft that goes on in the world? Religion can warp people's mind and cause them to do crazy things, but it's hardly the tree from which all evil branches like some of you dunces seem to think it is. (Reply to this) |
on Aug 23 2007 02:39 PM In reply to this comment (#1061649) Opinions can never be wrong. Misguided? Maybe. Uninformed? Certainly. But never wrong. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 23 2007 02:43 PM In reply to this comment (#1065473) All the evil in the world? Certainly not. But a large percentage of evil has stemmed from religious motivations. The Crusades, The Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, etc, etc. As a great man once said: "Religion is the opiate of the masses." Of course, I have nothing personal against religion, it's just not for me. (Note, I say nothing about a belief in God. That's a completely separate issue.) (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 23 2007 09:06 PM I got nothing against religion, just the cowards who hide behind it. (Reply to this) |
on Aug 25 2007 09:40 AM In reply to this comment (#1065473) Amen to that, brother! (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 26 2007 06:50 AM In reply to this comment (#1059345) Well if you really want to get technical about it, early Christians waged a war of ideas against Greek/Roman scientists and philosophers, advocating blind faith in the Bible and Christ over thought and experimentation, or questioning of the natural world. And once Christianity got the backing of the Roman empire, well... Of course there are many causes to anything that happens, but essentially the Dark Ages were triggered by Christianity in the same way that the Civil War was triggered by slavery - there were other reasons of course, but there was one principal overriding cause. So in that sense, yes, religion has represented some very VERY major steps backward. Having said that, of course, there have been many religious people who have moved us forward, such as the Christian Renaissance painters that you cited, or the Muslim scientists who saved the aforementioned Greek sciences and philosophies by actively working to translate the almost-lost works hundreds of years later. But I still don't get what all the fuss is about, something being "anti-religion". I'm an agnostic, I don't know if there's a god/creator but I certainly don't believe in religion. Yet I enjoy pro-religious movies, and have quite a few on DVD (Passion of the Christ, Ten Commandments, Prince of Egypt, to name a few). I've never worried about a pro-religion movie oppressing me (and as an agnostic, I think I have a little more to worry about in the oppression department than, say, members of one of the most powerful institutions on the face of the planet). And if a book or film is anti-religion, so what? So what if it says "The author doesn't agree with the concept of religion"? Is that really going to be such a huge test of your own faith? Is it saying "OMG, anyone who believes in God is teh stupid LOL LOL"? No. Art is about expressing ideas and opinions in your own way, and atheists and agnostics have every right to express opinions in opposition to religion just as Catholics have to promote religion. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 27 2007 09:58 AM 1. Christianity is not averse to science, although that is a popular stereotype. 2. All faith is blind, by definition. It's belief in things unseen/ unproven. 3. People should have the right to express themselves in art. Absolutely. But likewise, other people should have the right to respond to that art, and that includes responding with criticism. The "get over it" argument is just lazy. It's not how the world works. (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 27 2007 09:58 AM I don't really care about this. What really offends me is that they've taken the amazing Dark is Rising series of books and turned it into what looks like an awful movie. I've been hoping for years they'd finally film these, but it looks like they've completely missed the point of the books and botched it. And they couldn't even keep the title the same? Now it's "The Seeker:TDIR"?? What's up with that? (Reply to this) |
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on Aug 27 2007 11:34 AM How funny is it that the Catholic Church having a problem with this movie! Isn't that like the Easter Bunny, having a problem with the depiction of Santa Claus. I wish people would keep their made up beliefs off my movies! (Reply to this) |
on Aug 27 2007 11:34 AM In reply to this comment (#1066199) One of the most damaging entities to Christianity over time has been the Catholic Church, which in it's traditional sense has greatly veered from Biblical teachings. Jesus was about serving people, where as the Catholic Church has been more about power over people. (Reply to this) |
on Sep 02 2007 11:20 AM In the world of the Golden Compass, the Calvinist Christian church is the dominating religious force and is referred to as simply the Church. At least that's what I remember from the books. I think it was mentioned in the beginning of the Golden Compass. (Reply to this) |
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on Sep 02 2007 11:21 AM In reply to this comment (#1092329) I should have read the other comments first... I see my point was already brought up. My bad. (Reply to this) |
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on Sep 09 2007 11:45 AM for a kids book the latter book in the trilogy is deep. and pullmans views are strong, he actually says 'the christianity is a lie'... haha well i dont care, and, like burninator or woteva says its not actually GOD, just the first angel. In the books Pullman says that a wiser angel realised he wasnt the creator and started a revolt, just like lucifer. This infers that he thinks that what we call the devil, was wiser than 'god' and not even evil! its funny isnt it. i love the books, not only because they are well written and have a brilliant plot, but also because they are very daring. This first book, Northern lights or the golden compass (even though its not a compass - and on this small point, the films tagline, 'there are worlds beyond our own, the compass will find the way' makes no sense because wot lyra has, which is a alethiomenter tells the truth and wont lead you to other worlds) isnt so controversal as the third and its a shame but obvious that they watered it down a lot. These books were written a long time ago, so if all the films that are 'controversial' come at once it doesn't mean Hollywood isnt original - well it isnt - but its not the boooks fault, or the films. The books are basically based on Paradise Lost and that has to be the most controversial book story ever (just thought i'd mention that...) chris, aged 14 (Reply to this) |
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on Sep 09 2007 12:01 PM what scares me about not having a religion is that when i die i dont want to stop and just rot in the ground. Religion can give people hope, whether it is false hope, no one can know. but what i think is bad is for people to be bullied into religion. people who say i dont believe in god are sometimes stereotyped as people who are not very clever or have no time for thinking deeper, who goes to the pub every night and drinks ten pints and watches every football match ever. if u know wot i mean... hehe people with a religion are given more respect, but why? (Reply to this) |
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on Sep 15 2007 02:19 PM What has happened to personal responsibility? someone made a movie potentially bashing catholism, calvinism, or religion in general. Are you not secure enough in your own religion to take such a thing in stride. "His opinion, doesn't affect my faith" Is what I should be hearing not all this complaining and ranting and personal opinion artistic expression fluff. People complained that Harry Potter was promoting paganism and witchcraft if your going to be waved into a fad of fiction based on a series of children's books. Odds are tomorrow you will be converting to islam because its all over the news, that or you watched Ali for the first time this weekend. And who keeps moaning about catholism being bashed in hollywood and not enough muslim terrorists being depicted? Are you off your rocker? seriously what is even the point of such a thing? Do you truly vision hollywood as a this terrorist sympathizing anti christian war machine? They make million dollar movies for money Narnia was a bockbluster, they hope this will be too religious convictions aside religious, anti religious: its all pieces of that big 'target market' pie Don't like it still? you have the power not to watch it real easy, go about your life or go get one, if needed there is an infinite amount of movies out there, find one you like take some responsibility and fix things for yourself don't go around bashing some guys movie (Reply to this) |
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on Sep 15 2007 02:27 PM and chris made a good point if you want something to complain about when it comes to catholism read Dante's "Divine Comedy" he has a Pope Hole in one of the layers of hell I would say Dante has more controversy about him than Milton I would be hesistant to say that Paradise Lost is anti religious in anyway Milton was very devote in his convictions and faith in god but i will say his depiction of Satan is very intrigueing, and in ways grants Satan much empathy in the end we should all just read the Iliad and be happy (Reply to this) |
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on Sep 17 2007 04:38 PM Can't see a whole lot wrong with a fantasy having opinions about another fantasy. Me, I'm still ticked off with Disney's frivolous rendition Zeus and Apollo in "Hercules". :-) (Reply to this) |
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on Sep 19 2007 04:53 PM I'm Catholic and I've read the book. Funny -I thought the church in question was The Church of England. Go figure. (Reply to this) |
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on Sep 21 2007 02:22 PM In reply to this comment (#1059194) You might want to acutally, oh, LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT THE STORY before whining about the movie being anti-Catholic. In Lyra's world, the Catholic Church ceased to exist centuries before the story takes place. There, the Protestant Reformation was much more successful; many cardinals convert to the new theology, which leads to John Calvin getting elected as Pope. He uses that office to turn his theocratic vision into a world-encompassing Church. That sets the stage for the world government's interest in Dust (understood by the Church to be a manifestation of sin) and in Lyra herself. Pullman could very easily have made it a Catholic theocracy, but apparently preferred to offend Protestants instead. (Reply to this) |
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on Sep 23 2007 09:35 PM In reply to this comment (#1060446) "of course not all muslims are terrorists, but every terrorist is a muslim" Every heard of a man by the name of Timothy McVeigh? You know, the man responible for the second worst terrorist attack in U.S. history. Parents were...hmm... oh yeah, ROMAN CATHOLIC. And he was a white male. "and please, lets not pretend that muslims are bad guys on tv and in movies. THEY ARENT. not one movie out there questions islam or its leaders the way catholicism and mormonism havea been challenged constantly. but hey, its easy to understand. muslims respond with violence, christians dont. lefties just happen to be spineless." Bull****. Muslims are almost always bad guys anymore, particularly in T.V. shows dealing with the military, like N.C.I.S., The Unit, or 24. Watch T.V., read a book, get out of the cave you apparently live in. (Reply to this) |
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on Oct 10 2007 04:29 AM In reply to this comment (#1060446) sorry mrsnuggles but I cant let an ignorant piece of expletive get away with that comment, u've got me so flabbergasted I had to register to reply, I am not a religious man, I believe there may be something out there i%u2019m just no arrogant enough to assume I know better than the next man, but saying all terrorists are Muslims is offensive and own right wrong, where the IR Muslim or catholic or how about guy forks was he raging Muslim fundamentalist, at least make an attempt at finding out information before making a complete boob of yourself (Reply to this) |
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on Oct 10 2007 06:18 PM I read the books when they first were published. They were very interesting to read, but I do understand why people of faith have a problem with them, and with the release of the movie version. Most people think that their intellect can help them know the difference between fantasy and reality and that children younger and younger are given the responsibilty to do the same. What we are failing to realize is that the more we expose our minds to ideas that are contrary to things that are good and pure, we are desensitized to ideas that could take our hearts from God. Every Christian should be apprehensive about spending time with things that are negative, especially that are against the truth of God. People who are not Christian or are practicing their faith may not see the problem, but the closer we come to Christ, the more we will not want to involve ourselves with things that do not glorify God. Most people are so busy today, why spend the little time we have with something that does not bring glory to God? As a parent I want to have my child read and watch movies that promote the growth of her faith, not confuse her faith. (Reply to this) |
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on Oct 11 2007 05:48 AM In reply to this comment (#1182356) but surely rmoranty its better to let children have all the information on faith before choosing which path is right for them rather than parents making the choice for them, I have friends from school who are from very religious backgrounds one of them is now a junkie and the other one is in prison, whereas me i wasnt raised in a religious family and now i help out with charities like the RSPCC, and i'm still not religious (i believe theres a god, but i wouldnt be arogant enough to say i know its mind), have faith in your kids, guide them through morallity not dogma let them choose if christ, buddha or mohamed ect is for them or if none of the above is because in my opinion narrowing a childs outlook will only bring on greater rebellion in later life. just a bit of food for thought there Dafroog (the man with the goldern nun) (Reply to this) |
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on Oct 11 2007 06:28 AM In reply to this comment (#1059320) IM SORRY TO INFORM YOU THAT YOU ARE WRONG. NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS BUT ALL TERRORISTS ARE MUSLIMS. CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT ONE? NAME ONE RESENT TERRORISTIC ACT THAT HASN'T BEEN LINKED TO SOME IDIOT MUSLIM TRYING TO KILL PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY DON'T BELEIVE IN ALLAH. GOOD LUCK ON THAT ONE! (Reply to this) |
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on Oct 11 2007 06:45 AM Why can't people just understand that this is just a movie. If you don't want to see it don't see it! Why do certain groups have to try to persuade us one way or the other to WATCH A MOVIE??!! It baffles me when you have a religous group ie catholics start bashing movies becuase it dosn't fit there mold or there religous propaganda. I would hope to think that if you are religous, you be smart enough to think for yourself and have the common sense to know that a movie especailly fantasy related is supposed to be entertaining. That's it plain and simple. that's why its called fantasy! (Reply to this) |
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on Oct 11 2007 10:44 AM My kids and I listened to the first book on audio CD - I was interested because I had seen a trailer for the movie. For the most part, we enjoyed this book but decided it was a bit strange, most notably with a confusing message about an evil %u201CMagisterium%u201D (which is our modern term for the authority of the Catholic church to teach religious truth), bent on suppressing anyone or anything that threatens it%u2019s supreme power. I foolishly dismissed this as artistic expression. Sadly, we decided to see what the second book%u2019s message would be; maybe the alternate world introduced at the end of the first book would prove this picture of this evil Church to be foolish. I was utterly disgusted the further we traveled into the depths of the Subtle Knife, and found at the end that the young heroine is destined to kill God, who is really an evil and selfish deity. This movie is purely bait for unsuspecting and well meaning parents to buy the series of books, all written by a man who wants only to promote atheism and degrade Christianity. I urge everyone to look into this matter further and be prepared, unlike I was when I allowed my children to be exposed to such a harmful and noxious story. (Reply to this) |
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on Oct 11 2007 05:53 PM In reply to this comment (#1183422) WHOcares11: Have you ever heard of, oh, the Oklahoma City bombings? The man who was responsible was neither Muslim nor foreign: he was your average White Roman Catholic American by the name of Timothy McVeigh. ~ (Reply to this) |
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on Oct 16 2007 05:00 AM I think mrsnuggles was generalising, probably not a good idea, but there you go. And yes, not all terrorist acts are carried out by muslim's, but its a pretty damn high percent margin. Are all muslim's violent? probably not...but it does'nt help when you see mass crowds numbering in the hundreds of men women and children stoning girls/women to death for minor sexual infractions, whilst males guilty of the same crime are merely birched and sent on their merry way. Gay men being hanged in public whilst crowds jeer their misfortune are common place across islam. And families regularly slaughter their daughters in the name of honor because they fell in love or are associated with the wrong person from the wrong village/tribe. Are all muslims violent? very unlikely, but that doesnt stop them from being the most racist and intolerant mainstream religion on this planet. (Reply to this) |
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on Oct 16 2007 09:18 AM I believe everyone is entitled to his own opinion, and me being the very strong christian that I am include the author as well. You see I believe that my children should be able to pray at school and bring bibles to class. But you see if I believe in my rights I have to believe in everyone elses as well. My children saying grace over lunch at school could influence a child to do the same and that childs parent may not agree, but we live in a free country so people have to learn to deal with things that dont agree with going on everyday. (Reply to this) |
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on Oct 16 2007 09:28 AM I believe everyone is entitled to his own opinion, and me being the very strong christian that I am include the author as well. You see I believe that my children should be able to pray at school and bring bibles to class. But you see if I believe in my rights I have to believe in everyone elses as well. My children saying grace over lunch at school could influence a child to do the same and that childs parent may not agree, but we live in a free country so people have to learn to deal with things that dont agree with going on everyday. So who am I to say my child can publically bring GOD to everyones attention in a good way but this movie cant in a not so good way. Although I am not going to bash this movie itself, I do have some issues. The PG rating is crazy. There are alot of people in this world who believe free sex is ok, its natural, or maybe language does not offend them, but that does not stop it from getting a R rating for every other parent. This is a movie that may make children think differently and ask questions about what they have been taught their entire life. And even though some parents may not receive it as offensive or vulgar, some will. As for me I wouldnt take my children to see it, but maybe without all of the controversy I wouldnt have known it was this type of movie, and with the PG rating I would not have had any warning... I know I will get alot of hateful comments about my opinion, but it is the truth in my mind so thanks for listening. (Reply to this) |
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on Oct 17 2007 04:09 PM MOMMYOF5 How can you possibly base your decision to not view the movie, purely on whats been written here?. The film has'nt even been released, and already you assume by whats been posted by others as fact, trust me..it is'nt, its speculation based purely on the authors original books. And And why do you find the PG rating crazy in this movies case? far as i'm aware it contains minimal violence, no nudity and very little harsh lenguage, if thats the case then a PG rating is justified. Regardless of any percieved anti religious undertones it may or most likely will not have. After all, books rarely transfer to film in their entirety, and thats probably the case here. My advice to you is to wait till its released before you make a decision to not see it. Read a few reviews by respected reviewers, and conclude for yourself wether its one to be avoided. (Reply to this) |
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on Oct 19 2007 09:23 AM In reply to this comment (#1184320) Saint Hedwig Is that all you got? Tim McVeigh? I dont down play what he did. It was aweful but CURRENTLY name one terroristic act that has happend that does not involve muslims and the klling of people in the name of Allah because they are not muslim. watch the news! look back and you will see the USS Cole, the U.S. Embasy in Africa, the bombimg of the trains in Spain, the subway bombings in London, countless bombing around the world crried out by muslims and lets not forget 9-11 for Gods sake! Tim McVeigh? Seriously that is all you got? (Reply to this) |
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on Oct 25 2007 06:02 PM You know...I have not seen this movie or read these books...but my take on it...and you can take this as coming from a "radical, fundamentalist" Christian...is this...People have a right to put their ideas out there...both for and against...why not? But I don't have to watch this or put my kids in front of it...I have a strong enough faith that some dumb fictional story that was probably inspired by Satan isn't going to change MY beliefs. However, I can see how parents might be concerned about what is being marketed to their young impressionable children. I think it is important for people of faith to guard their hearts against certain things because if you put garbage in...that is exactly what comes out...I also think that if you don't agree with a certain message, then you should not support it financially..example...don't go to this movie...and I think it's great that people are being warned in advance so that those of us who don't want to be duped into paying 8 bucks a person to see a film that is clearly biased against "religion", won't be. I am certainly not going to make Philip Pullman a rich man as he tries to "kill God" in his own pathetic way. I hope others will do the same. (Reply to this) |
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on Oct 26 2007 04:46 PM Films like this should be seen as a basis for calm, open debate. In any case, I thought the major religious undertones from this film were being removed. Philip Pullman's work is fiction, and his view on the world. You can disagree with it, but it's nice to have some kind of logical and sensible argument for your refutation. Especially, I'd like to think that people would have the intelligence to read or watch something and digesting it for themselves before forming such an extreme opinion on it. I've read the books, and find them thought-provoking. I'm not a christian, but not because of the books, and the books haven't influenced that view. The story for me is about love, and getting to the end despite all the odds. My respect for the church will diminish, however, if underhand and frankly untrue remarks about such an important piece of work continue. As an aside, terrorism is an over-used buzzword, which extremists take advantage of. and not all terrorists are Muslim. Although, if they were, I think it would still be taboo to say so. (Reply to this) |
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on Oct 27 2007 09:02 AM In reply to this comment (#1059416) I consider myself an open-minded Christian. I'm open enough to see controversial movies and/or read the books myself and take them at face value. I do this (unlike many Christians) in order to stay open-minded and be able to dialogue about current societal things. And I do love a good fantasty. Can anyone say Star Wars??? ;-) However, when a movie or series is presented as a fairytale...TARGETED AT CHILDREN...I give it a lot more scrutiny. If you read about the author, you will find that HE WANTS children to turn away from God. He thinks religious or 'spiritual' beliefs have robbed our kids of the truth. The golden compass' dial points to TRUTH and SELF (according to the movie). So since the children end up killing God in the end...free to do whatever they please, what TRUTH do you think the writer wants my kids to believe? That's the dangerous part. (Reply to this) |
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on Oct 29 2007 09:27 AM In reply to this comment (#1059198) Amen, Witherwings! These "controversies" are an embarrassment to thoughtful believers everywhere, that we should be so afraid of a movie that presents a different view. Anything that opens discussion with others is an opportunity to engage in rational, thoughtful and winsome sharing of one's personal beliefs. Isn't that what our free society embraces? (Reply to this) |
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on Oct 29 2007 10:02 PM In reply to this comment (#1203094) Yes, a very small percentage of Muslims are fanatics and would like for all "infidels" to die. A small percentage of the Billions of Muslims worldwide are fanatics but that equals several MILLION fanatical Muslims that would like for all us non-Muslims to die. You see, I believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven. I don't want to kill you if you don't believe that. Muslims are not very accepting of non-Muslims (e.g. that whole infidel and killing thing written in the Quoran). Any Muslims want to comment on that? Also, how much different would the reactions be if the books or movie were about the Muslim god "Alah". I'll read the books and make up my own mind. I'll teach my kids to be discerning so that when the time comes, and someone attacks their beliefs, they can make up thier own mind as well and defend their faith. (Reply to this) |
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on Oct 31 2007 02:32 PM The Catholic Church saved my life. www.CatholicBridge.com (Reply to this) |
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on Oct 31 2007 05:57 PM Where I'm coming from: I'm Catholic. I love the books. And I've done some homework on the topic. As a Catholic, I can see why Catholic's are feeling targeted. Most Christian churches do not have the same hierarchical structure, and therefore, the hierarchy within the Church of the books seems Catholic, but it is arrogant to say it bashes the Catholic Church because there are other churches, such as the Episcopal and Eastern Orthodox, that have the same basic structure. I think the concern with the Angels is not the ambiguous gender, that would be accurate. I think the concern there is homosexuality. The concern with that is built on ignorance. I Catholic Church (and many other Christian groups) is not anti-homosexual, but it is accurate to say that some members of the Church are. They are the only ones that find that offensive. I have heard some groups argue that the in the end of the movie the children kill God. That just makes me want to go on a rampage. I can see how if you really twist the books, you can come to that conclusion, but it certainly wouldn't make sense for that to happen in a movie based on the first book. These people are arguing trying to scare people away from the books. If they are truly Christian, they should realize the Bible equates manipulation of the truth in order to be misleading with lying. The concern of educated people is that the movie will lead kids to read the books. So what! I think witherwings is right in saying "have faith in your faith." It's a learning opportunity. If people are Christian, they should talk to their kids about the movie, not keep their kids in the dark by keeping them from the movie and the books. People did that with Harry Potter, and I think that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. If my kids want to read something, I'm not going to say no. Reading is a good thing. If I'm a good parent, I will give my kids the tools to intelligently handle anything they read instead of absorbing it like a sponge of truth. They can absorb; it all comes down to what they do with what they absorb. (Reply to this) |
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on Oct 31 2007 06:04 PM Where I'm coming from: I'm Catholic. I love the books. And I've done some homework on the topic. As a Catholic, I can see why Catholic's are feeling targeted. Most Christian churches do not have the same hierarchical structure, and therefore, the hierarchy within the Church of the books seems Catholic, but it is arrogant to say it bashes the Catholic Church because there are other churches, such as the Episcopal and Eastern Orthodox, that have the same basic structure. I think the concern with the Angels is not the ambiguous gender, that would be accurate. I think the concern there is homosexuality. The concern with that is built on ignorance. I Catholic Church (and many other Christian groups) is not anti-homosexual, but it is accurate to say that some members of the Church are. They are the only ones that find that offensive. I have heard some groups argue that the in the end of the movie the children kill God. That just makes me want to go on a rampage. I can see how if you really twist the books, you can come to that conclusion, but it certainly wouldn't make sense for that to happen in a movie based on the first book. These people are arguing trying to scare people away from the books. If they are truly Christian, they should realize the Bible equates manipulation of the truth in order to be misleading with lying. The concern of educated people is that the movie will lead kids to read the books. So what! I think witherwings is right in saying "have faith in your faith." It's a learning opportunity. If people are Christian, they should talk to their kids about the movie, not keep their kids in the dark by keeping them from the movie and the books. People did that with Harry Potter, and I think that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. If my kids want to read something, I'm not going to say no. Reading is a good thing. If I'm a good parent, I will give my kids the tools to intelligently handle anything they read instead of absorbing it like a sponge of truth. They can absorb; it all comes down to what they do with what they absorb. (Reply to this) |
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on Oct 31 2007 06:36 PM Sorry, didn't mean to double-post. I just wanted to say that all this hatred is terrible! The only problem with the controversy of the movie is that it is causing people to say they hate Catholics or Calvinists or Atheists or Muslims. It's ridiculous. Hatred is certainly not the point. Also, I think we should be considerate that the organizations being attacked here are not evil, just people within them. Sometimes there have been evil people within these organizations. Let's not classify the organization based on individuals. Another also...as a Catholic, when the Church believes something is controversial, especially with movies, Church officials write letters to parish priests to help guide people's perspectives on this (I know it seems like brainwashing), but usually the letter is to let people know what may be controversial in the book or movie and what theology suggests as a defense. It happened with DaVinci Code and (this may surprise you) The Passion of Christ. With the Passion, it was to remind us that we need to be considerate of our Jewish brothers and to not be anti-Semitic based on the graphic depiction of Christ being brutalized. I haven't heard a thing about The Golden Compass. So I don't think you should all be getting so upset at the anger that the Catholic Church is feeling over the movies. There may be some officials that are upset, but the Church as a whole is not getting all roiled up. (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 01 2007 09:45 AM The Christian message is this- God loves you more than anyone will ever be able to love you. He is offering you eternal life thru the death, burial, and resurrection of His Son Jesus the Christ. Witches and darkness and "killing God" are not what's best. He wants what is best for you and a life without Jesus as your Lord is not what is best. I apologize for other believers who spew hatred and intolerance. Hollywood is Hollywood and they have always made and always will make movies that make them money. Hopefully the Christians out there will stand up for the faith primarily by sharing the love that Christ has to offer. It's too bad many Christians want to condemn everybody and forget to use John 3:17 which states that "God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world but so that thru Him they might be saved." Check Jesus out for yourself and don't let the imperfect lives of His followers keep you from receiving the eternal life He wants to give you. He is awesome, I am not. He is perfect, I am not. Make Jesus the Lord of your life. (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 01 2007 01:36 PM I don't care what anyone else says, this movie is blasphemy. Sure, this first movie may be innocent enough, and sure, they may have toned down the anti-religious themes for the sake of selling better. But look at the facts, people. THE SERIES GETS WORSE. As most of us know, the series ends with God getting killed. How are the movie makers going to replace that, or tone it down or whatever, when The Amber Spyglass comes around? I don't think they will. I don't think they even can. So the movie makers need a scheme to get the masses to watch their movies, getting as little religious controversy as they can. Think about it for a minute. The makers are playing this just like drug dealers handle the distribution of drugs. Start out small. Make the first movie innocent. That way, most people, even Christians, can walk out of the theater and say "well, that was a good movie" and eagerly await the next one. All throughout The Subtle Knife's production, they'll be just dying to see the next installment. And then the next one. See? You get hooked. Just like with drugs. You have to see what's next. You just want more and more. And that's the deal with The Golden Compass. By the time the last installment in the series comes around, no one will care as much that it involves the controversial death of God. Christians, you should NOT be supporting this. Phillip Pullmen has stated himself "I want to kill God in the eyes of children." Don't support this. God is real. (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 02 2007 05:11 AM In reply to this comment (#1239577) Hey Cheese. Don't get me wrong, I agree that absolutely no Christian should see this movie or support it or condone it. My take was we should also attempt to use this time to share Christ with others. Good words you had. (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 03 2007 10:04 AM I just feel like it's a learning opportunity. Kids should not grow up in tiny little Christian bubbles. Naivete does not help anyone, and I think it has a lot to do with prejudices. My kids will get exposed to a variety of perspectives, so that every way of life seems normal to them. I will certainly talk to them and explain why we believe differently because I think there is plenty of evidence to support my Christian perspective, but I don't want my kids to treat atheists differently or as less than human. That wouldn't be Christian. I don't think going to see this movie is supporting atheism. Are the cast and crew all atheists? No! It's not like the money is going to an organization that supports atheism or is anti-christian. Yes, Pullman will recieve money for this, but he's a human being who deserves credit for his creative merits. I don't think he has any less right to make a movie than a Christian, and I'm going to support his right to do so (even though I am a fairly conservative Catholic. Yeah, that's right!) (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 04 2007 05:05 PM Who gives a rat's ***? (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 07 2007 11:26 PM In reply to this comment (#1059198) Witherwings, I do agree that our faith need to be able to and does stand up for itself but this movie is not going to be there for just us Christians to watch but for the whole world. You say that if you had children you would "explain to them the difference" but what about all those children who do not have you or anyone else to explain the truth to them? What happens to them? All I'm trying to say is that us Christians aren't afraid for our faith but for those who don't have any. (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 07 2007 11:42 PM In reply to this comment (#1244360) Peolple should not be prejudice against the atheist but against their blasphemous teachings. This movie should not be baned by Christians or Catholics because it might support the atheist writter or what ever, it should be banned because of the teachings it putting out for the world to see. Pullman most definitely has the right to make this movie but Christians also have the right to try and persuede other people not to see it. We cannot be so selfish as to allow this kind of blasphemy to go around just because the book or movie is interesting. There is more to consider here than Pullmans rights. (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 08 2007 11:23 AM In reply to this comment (#1261892) Yes, Artsy, that's exactly what I was thinking. Pullman is a jerk, trying to force his heretic beliefs on children as he is. After all, Christianity isn't just a petty political force, or a philosophical idea, as Pullman has presented it in his series. It's much, much more. It's like, a homeless shelter, the Red Cross, and a miniature FEMA, all rolled into one. The Christian church does all kinds of behind-the-scenes work that most people would never know about. For example, whenever a hurricane hits somewhere, causing devastation, Christians mission teams are some of the first ones on the site, fixing homes, cleaning wreckage, etc, at no cost whatsoever. Homeless and needy people come to the church regularly for help getting back onto their feet, because the church is one of the few organizations so willing to help them for free. I could go on, but I think I've made my point. So basically, my point in all this is that by using his stories to try to make children into atheists, Pullman is simultaneously trying to destroy a major charitable organization, piece by piece. How can this be justified? Atheism is simply an philosophical idea. No more, no less. Atheists say "we think that, philosophically, there couldn't be a God." Is it really worth trying to destroy one of the largest and most charitable organizations in the word, simply to impose a freakin' IDEA? (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 16 2007 08:33 PM I am a little confused here. I find it very hard to understand why folks think the Vatican is over reacting when they say the books attack Catholic ideas with quotes like: %u2018Christianity is a mistake, a powerful and seductive mistake, but a mistake all the same.%u2019 Or That all angels are "Bene Elim", which is actually a Hebrew phrase for 'Sons of God' Or That angels are made of Dust, which is the physical evidence of original sin. Or That Satan is mentioned in the books, but he is actually cleared of being the first to rebel against God. And that the reason the rebellion happened was because of God's lies and deceits. Sorry folks, but there is NO way you can say these books are being misinterpreted as attacks on Christianity, heck the author himself freely admits that. The problem I see is not with the books, but the attitude behind them. So many people spew hatred at Christianity because of 'the evils caused in its name'. They point to the Crusades, the cover ups of child molestation, ignoring Mussolini, etc. Almost all of the acts pointed out were indeed evil natures, and indeed many of the folks performing them DID use Christianity as a cover. The problem is that they fail to see that these same evil acts are performed time and time again, all over the world throughout the ages, to worse and less extents and never has any Christianity been brought up. I will challenge anyone to a contest; give me an evil act performed "in Christianity's name", and I will give you 5 acts the same level or worse done not in Christianity's name. Evil is not committed by an entity, it is committed by individuals. God gave us free will, how we choose to live our lives is up to us. Anyone can blame anything on anybody or any organization, and given enough people behind them saying the same thing, then it seems to be the truth. Yet it is so far from the truth, the ideas Christ showed us. The evil I see here comes in two flavors, so be it; 1. This books is no more than the original sin is so blatantly talks about as a useful substance in it's chapters. It is an attempt to put doubt in children%u2019s minds about God, and more specifically Christianity. The author is even quoted as saying that he hated 'The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe' so much he made this series as an attack against the ideas it stood for..which is the teachings of Christ. IF I had to pick against whether our involvement in Iraq or this series was more evil, I would have to pick these books I think. The Iraq involvement will be over before we know it, but this series, if brought to our children as an innocent highly enjoyable fun thing (which New Line is SOOO good at doing) will live with them forever. Even if it is watered down in the movies, they will demand to read the books...and Scholastic is ensuring that all our libraries have PLENTY of copies of them. 2. As Christians we are missing what could be one of our greatest triumphs here. Anger, protest, argument, etc. are not what we are about. I harbor no ill feelings against those who choose to see this, nor the studio, nor the author even. I harbor no ill feelings to those who post here call Christians whiners and hypocrites. As Christians we have been always asked to take the hard path on this. Fighting is easy, forgiving and teachings are the hard way. I see too many attacks against us these days. Too many kids growing up, becoming adults, raising their own children, etc. whom have never set foot in a Christian church, never heard the word except for it being yelled at them, never been challenged to just try this once, just to ask me questions a few times, just to talk. Too many doubters, atheists, agnostics, etc. associate spending time talking about this with door knocking, pamphlet distributing, folks witnessing. The biggest evil here is not these books; it is the fact that we have become callous enough, so narrow minded, that we have not seen fit to put as much effort into finding a way to show the true love as they have in finding a way to stamp on it. (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 17 2007 10:54 AM In reply to this comment (#1061409) "The thing that gets me also is that these books have been around for ages, why does controversy come around now when its made into a film? Is it because children are more likely to see it?" That would require reading a book. How many people read anymore anyway? Other than online, I mean. I think what all the controversy boils down to is that some people just want to feel like they're being victimized by a society that they believe to be against everything they stand for, even if they're in the majority of that society. I suppose it turns them on or something. Like that episode of South Park with Mel Gibson..."oh! my nipples! they hurt so bad when you twist them!" (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 17 2007 12:57 PM In reply to this comment (#1203094) "Saint Hedwig Is that all you got? Tim McVeigh? I dont down play what he did. It was aweful but CURRENTLY name one terroristic act that has happend that does not involve muslims and the klling of people in the name of Allah because they are not muslim." If I'm not mistaken, and I'm not, but have you heard of the IRA? You know, they've been blowing people up in the UK for the last thirty years. There's a truce right now from what I understand and the violence is kept bottled up. I wouldn't be surprised though if the peace didn't last. That's the problem with religious fanatacism. It doesn't matter what religion it is, in this case Protestants vs. Catholics (Christians vs. Christians), these fanatics have to kill anyone who doesn't believe what they do. Or how about Spain? You know the Basques Separatist movement? They like to blow up people too. That has *nothing* to do with Islam. Or do you consider America do be the only important country to think about. Everyone else in the world has been dealing with violence and killing and terrorism for a while now. America was a really safe place and we didn't have to worry about anything. It still is relatively safe, despite the media hype wanting you to believe otherwise. You could live in the Sudan you know. But you probably couldn't even find it on a map, so why even think about those people. I feel sorry for you. It must suck not knowing anything about the world, the people who live in it or what goes on outside of what's reported on Faux News. And BTW, how in the gods names did we wind up talking about terrorism on a children's movie forum?! (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 17 2007 01:13 PM "Yes, a very small percentage of Muslims are fanatics and would like for all "infidels" to die. A small percentage of the Billions of Muslims worldwide are fanatics but that equals several MILLION fanatical Muslims that would like for all us non-Muslims to die. You see, I believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven. I don't want to kill you if you don't believe that. Muslims are not very accepting of non-Muslims (e.g. that whole infidel and killing thing written in the Quoran). Any Muslims want to comment on that?" Um, it's estimated that 1.5 Billion people in the world are Muslim. That's less than two, which makes your plural "Billions" a bit much. And what sort of "small percentage" do you mean? Would you like to quantify that with some kind of research? I'll tell you that a "small percentage" of *humanity* in general are psychotic, and this goes for Christians as well as everyone else. Christians are still the majority religion, at an estimated 2.5 Billion adherents world wide. It must be difficult to feel persecuted when you're in the majority. I've known a few Muslims in my life, and none of them have ever been any different really than anyone else. In fact, I've never been treated like crap by the Muslims I've known, but I have been treated like crap by quite a few Christians that I've met because I'm not Christian. How many Muslims do you know? I bet you do know some, you're just not aware of it because they don't tell you that they are for fear you'll start trying to convert them to Christianity, or cease being their friend all together. And on a side note, a lot of Christians in history have killed people for not believing in Jesus or Christianity, or believing a different version of Christianity. Just pick up a history book or go to wikipedia if you're not inclined to read a book. Between the crusades (against Muslims and other Christians, like the Albigensian crusade), the witch trials, and the burnings of heretics, Christians have been responsible for their fair share of death and destruction. It is estimated that tens of millions of people lost their lives from the tenth to the eighteenth century because of religious persecution by Christians. It's quite mindboggling to think about the number of people they killed considering the overall population of the period. The only difference is that they did it under the auspices of sanctioned government and murdered people within the confines of their twisted laws. Fanatical religion is a blight on humanity and the faster it dies, the better off we all will be. (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 19 2007 08:37 PM Pullman's novels can't be as horribly written as the Left Behind series or anything by Frank Peretti. I mean, have you even read Peretti's This Present Darkness? I felt unclean after reading it, and not because of the subject matter. The writing was strictly first-year Jackie Collins territory! (IOW, really really awful.) I don't read Harry Potter books not because of the sorcery, but because I don't read children's books unless I read it to my own daughter. Depending on the MPAA rating, I may or may not take her to see this movie. That is my call to make as a parent, and even if it does get a PG, I want to see it first because there are some PG-rated movies that are not appropriate for her. That, and if she's afraid that there may be something scary in a movie, I want to know what to tell her to comfort her when we see it together. (She still won't watch the "Stone Table" scene in Narnia even with me there with her watching the DVD, but I won't force her to either.) It's every parent's prerogative to choose which movie an under-age child watches. I've seen pre-teens with their parents going into the theater to see the Texas Chainsaw Massacre remake, but if they know their kid is not gonna freak out over it, that's their business not mine. MPAA ratings are there for the parent to help make choices that are appropriate for their kids. That's reality. Even if I had enough money to watch every single movie that is released, I won't. I watch what I want to watch, and that's the bottom line. (Reply to this) |
on Nov 21 2007 01:25 AM im with burnout,but people are free to feel and respond in whatever manner they want.i tink its healthy (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 22 2007 07:12 PM In reply to this comment (#1059320) JSM158, You have got to be kidding. I am sick and tired off hearing how islam is a religion of peace. You have entire nations of people who would celebrate a nuclear weapon being detonated in a U.S. city...why?....because they are insane religious fanatics. And Hollywood will never produce a film that is blatantly anti-islam or anti-jewish or anti-budhist. Maybe Christians need to be more concerned with other priorities, but dont give me this crap about other religions getting treatted similarly or that the majority of Muslims dont support terrorism against the US. That is a lie. (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 23 2007 05:36 AM I thought that there was a time that angels came down and mated with humans which eventually created a race of giants in Canaan. I think this is from the book of Enoch, which is a gnostic gospel, but it's a good explanation none the less.. (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 24 2007 04:13 AM TO ALL CATHOLICS: Remember, we MUST be persecuted. It is a sign of the true Church of Jesus Christ. We are sheep among wolves. Remember, Jesus was not popular, and he promised that the gates of hell will not prevail against us. This movie, the whole pop media culture, most of those who have commented in this forum, and basically, society in general today are merely extensions of the huge crowd that yelled, "Crucify him," 2000 years ago. The true Christian unites with Jesus in receiving the taunts and jeers of the worldy crowd. So, be as Christ, and don't whine and complain. Just pray, receive Jesus in the Eucharist every Sunday, serve the poor, and do not be afraid! (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 25 2007 09:53 AM This is obviously an anti-christian book series. Wither if you don't see that then you haven't really read them. I am not a christian and I can see that very plainly. They target the God of christianity and kill him in the 3rd book. It is a no-brainer that christian families would and should avoid this movie and these books because they put money in the pocket of someone who obviously has some deep-seated issues against ... christianity. It's not ambiguous at all. (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 28 2007 09:31 AM In reply to this comment (#1059194) I can't think of two more deserving candidates for scathing criticism than George Bush and the Catholic Church! I only wish there were more movies persecuting both. There are millions of people around the world who are not Catholic or Christian or who are agnostic or atheists who have done much good for humanity. Criticism that attempts to limit personal freedoms is extremely dangerous and very reminiscent of the type of propaganda used to ban great works of literature. Philip Pullman was recently interviewed about his work. When asked, "How do you respond to the claim that your books are anti-Catholic and promote atheism?" Pullman responded: "In the world of the story %u2014 Lyra%u2019s world %u2014 there is a church that has acquired great political power, rather in the way that some religions in our world have done at various times, and still do (think of the Taliban in Afghanistan). My point is that religion is at its best %u2014 it does most good %u2014 when it is farthest away from political power, and that when it gets hold of the power to (for example) send armies to war or to condemn people to death, or to rule every aspect of our lives, it rapidly goes bad. Sometimes people think that if something is done in the name of faith or religion, it must be good. Unfortunately, that isn%u2019t true; some things done in the name of religion are very bad. That was what I was trying to describe in my story. I think the qualities that the books celebrate are those such as kindness, love, courage and courtesy too. And intellectual curiosity. All these good things. And the qualities that the books attack are cold-heartedness, tyranny, close-mindedness, cruelty, the things that we all agree are bad things." This is, in my opinion, an entirely reasonable response and one that should not stir propagandist, fear-mongering. We must be very careful of attacking works of art for religious reasons and should instead look for value in the works. (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 28 2007 09:32 AM In reply to this comment (#1061356) I will admit, I have not read the books and do not plan to. I also do not plan to see this movie either (and I do enjoy fantasy movies) or allow my children to see it especially. It has nothing to do with strenght of Faith, but simply a decision to not support a work that intentionally veers from my own views and ideaology (no I have not read or seen the Harry Potter books or movies). Afterall, as a Christian, how can I support something or someone that culimates in the killing of GOD? Fantasy or not, that very idea is blasphemous to not only Christianity, but just about all other religions as well. And contrary to some views here, blasphemy is not relegated to just physical action but extends to thoughts as well (secret and publicly voiced). (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 28 2007 03:40 PM In reply to this comment (#1059194) Well, if the Catholic Priests would stop molesting children, then maybe people would stop making movies that shed the Catholic Church in a bad light. (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 28 2007 03:42 PM In reply to this comment (#1313885) How can someone kill something that does not exist? (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 28 2007 07:18 PM In reply to this comment (#1313879) I am very much confused by comments like yours Uglygnome, and I wish that whatever it is that is making folks blind to this could be cleared. If your comment is that this book is nothing more than an attack on organized religion and NOT specifically an attack on Christianity, then let me state again; How about I match your quote against another quote Mr. Pullman made; "Christianity is a mistake, a powerful and seductive mistake, but a mistake all the same." or perhaps the following things found in the series; 1. That the series states that all angels are "Bene Elim", which is actually a Hebrew phrase for 'Sons of God'. 2. It is stated early in the series that the compass runs on dust. It goes on later to explain that Dust 9notice the capital now..as in the series) is the remains of angels. It then goes even further later to explain that dust is the physical evidence of the original sin. Let me make a clear point here, the concept of original sin is PURELY a Christian concept. It is NOT mentioned, nor even conceived in any other religion except for in Islamic teachings and only then it is mentioned in reference to Christianity and why we are wrong for believing in this idea. 3. How about the fact that Satan is mentioned in the books, which again is a Christian word for the evil antagonist or God. Now let's go even further in proof that the series is anti-Christian in the fact that it states that Satan was NOT responsible for his rebellion, but that God was for his 'lies and deceits'. Choosing not to believe in God, or an organized religion, or the Christian God is yours' and everyone elses choice. We have been given free will, and it is a great great gift and curse, much like democracy. No one is responsible for anyone else's actions but themselves, good or bad..a concept we find easily breezed over in todays society of taking to court companies and blaming them for using their products wrongly, or forcing the Supreme Court to have to make a ruling that companies must put warning labels on products such as "Product will be hot after heating" or my absolute favorite on a jar of peanuts that is "contains nuts". The true question/statement in this topic is whether as Christians, we should ignore, or protest against a movie based on a series that directly attacks our religion. I cannot help but think of the Islamic religious protest/denunciation of the cartoons published in the Danish newspapers. I am ashamed to admit I considered it over reaction at first when I heard about the issue. I remember saying to someone I knew about how I could not believe the big deal made of this cartoon and why couldn't they just get over it. I remember his look of disgust at me. I remember being the only person at first who seemed to think as I did and being called shallow. I remember the news, the politicians, the leaders of that time saying that the Islamic religion was within their rights to be upset. I remember the most liberal of them being told we were wrong and bigots because we did not agree. I remember the day that Father (Catholic priest name..which you all probably knew, but I guess I wanted to clarify) gave a sermon on why the Islamic religion was correct in what they were doing and the reasons why we should SUPPORT them. I remember my chagrin and shame... Yet now here we are, the issue is on our lap, the message striking out against us not just an cartoon in one newspaper but a blockbuster movie slated to be shown in every theater world wide, hyped as being not a political statement/cartoon, but a CHILDRENS event. An movie that is just about fun, just about killing God, because he is evil.. I am sorry, I wish I had more patience on this, more understanding, but only as a Christian I only know of one person who was perfect. As much as I try to follow in His footsteps, his beliefs, I find myself falling short. I know he forgives me, but I find it hard at times to let myself accept that. I become to afraid I can push off all responsibility on that idea, and then I truly am in trouble. Knowing this all, I will not support this movie, will not sit idly by as they tell my children and my children%u2019s friends that this movie/series is innocent of attacking the very values I am asked to forgive this movie for. The founders of our country had many phrases/battle cries they used to decry their anger at being put in their position. My favorite was always been 'Don't Tread On Me'. I cannot believe I am considering this, but given the fact that the press is glossing over this attack on Christianity (the same press whom will go on for weeks about protests by other religious organizations..and why they are right), and given the fact that if Christians whom do choose to voice their protest against this series/movie are called over reacting, and that unfortunately no one seems to have stepped up for those calling us this to ask them to think (as we have been time and time again), then I vow this; on opening day I plan on showing up at our local theater wearing my replica of the revolutionary war flag I loved so much. 'Don't Tread On Me' (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 29 2007 01:20 AM "I can't think of two more deserving candidates for scathing criticism than George Bush and the Catholic Church! I only wish there were more movies persecuting both. " --Uglygnome Religious and Political preferences aside, I think that we should all be able to show a little bit of RESPECT for other people's religions. As for PRESIDENT Bush, whether he was the best candidate, or the worst president in history, the fact is that he DID get elected by the masses to office. Whether you like him or not, it would be nice if the general public could at least show him enough respect to not belittle him in such an uncouth and IMMATURE manner. After all, the man is your leader, whether you like it or not. Back to religion, Christianity is (apparently, since I never read the books) severely bashed in the books. This is legitimately offensive to serious believers. I am agnostic, so don't even try calling me biased. All religions have their hypocrites, and, sadly, many people base their views about particular religions based on the pieces that are shown on TV and other media. One of the most common, and indeed annoying, arguments against Catholics is the molesting clergymen. Because of a few bad apples, an entire orchard is burned down. This is true in all religions. I don't know much about Islam, but I did grow up next to some very religious and peaceful Muslims. They were very good friends of mine, and I bring them up to show that, while MANY Muslims are violent fanatics, MANY are also peaceful. MANY Christians are hypocrites and prudes, but MANY (and probably MORE) are normal, caring people who just want to be treated fairly in the world. The real controversy is exactly what Heimdell said, whether Christians, or even ANYONE, should protest or ignore anything that directly attacks their religion. That goes for Christians, Muslims, Jews, Pagans, Buddhists, and even Atheists alike. I can only imagine how many of the more rude and condescending atheists (ex: Catholics are stupid; Anyone who follows any religion is an idiot; other stereotypical posts; etc.) would respond if this movie/book series had been severely Anti-Atheist. Based purely on my own experience and observation, many of those same people would be so highly offended, that they would have the whole nation saying "This is an outrage!" instead of "Those guys should probably just get over themselves and just not watch it." Please remember to look through another's eyes, and most of all, SHOW SOME RESPECT!! (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 29 2007 08:21 AM In reply to this comment (#1315136) You "christians" are the most hypocritical bible-thumpers ever. Your beliefs are closer to those of Nazis than those of Jesus. The good news is that this movie will make millions regardless of your right-wing nonsense. God bless the atheists. (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 29 2007 09:34 AM www.centerfortruth.com Go to this website click on all the links below and read for yourself why we feel we are being attacked. Pullman's stated goal is to destrot ALL concept of God. Newsflash people it's NOT JUST CHRISTIANS that are being attacked. Jews,Muslims,Buddhists and yes even satanist theologies are in his publicly stated line of fire. He did not write these books to appeal to adults who are able to process information logically. His goal is impressionable young children. If you support this movie with your money then you will advance his agenda. To all you atheists....go ahead enjoy yourself. Heck go twice so you can replace the money I won't be giving them. And to everyone who is not going due to their objections. Why not send a clear message to Hollywood and the theater industry and boycott ALL movies that are playing while this film is in their theaters. No need to stand outside and boycott let them feel our impact by our absence. THE GREATEST TRICK SATAN EVER PLAYED ON MANKIND WAS TO MAKE HIM THINK GOD DOES NOT EXIST (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 29 2007 02:03 PM OK tracker, The point of this thread is the movie, not zealos fanatics. The book series puts forth a "belief" that the created can destroy the creator. It portrays God as an unjust, lying, old man. On the flip side, satan is portrayed as "not so bad". Quick search of Google shows varying data when it comes to radical muslims. As low as 1% and upwards to 15% fall into the "radical" catagory. You ended your post with "Fanatical religion is a blight on humanity and the faster it dies, the better off we all will be.". What do you think radical Muslims ht O http As best I can estimate from election data, survey research, anecdotal evidence, and the opinions of informed observers, this Islamist element constitutes some 10 to 15 percent of the total Muslim world population of roughly one billion - that is, some 100 to 150 million persons h BTW - Tracker, you kept the terrorism topic going on a movie thread. (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 29 2007 02:36 PM In reply to this comment (#1316152) *sigh* I love it when I get a response like this, a few short sentances full of nothing but venom and hatred. The worst part about this is that it only seeks to further divide us... You are absolutly correct in stating that acting in anger, hatred, etc. are not the ways our Lord taught us to deal with life. However, read over the last few pages of posts please. It is not the Christian postings who lash out with statements that are name calling, that seek to belittle. The Christian religion has it's fair share of fanatical no minded folks, whose only ideas are that there is no word but thiers, like any other religion. Why play into their hands with posts like these? Let's talk about this, listen to each other, find out how to live in peace with each other. I will not make posts based only in hatred, I only ask the same. (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 30 2007 07:33 PM Dear Phillip Pullman Your time on this earth is shorter than you realize. You and I will be sitting down to talk over this "atheism" nonsense very soon. I want you to remember that I love you dearly and always have. It will not be too late for you to change your mind and come back to me until that split second after your last breath is taken. And then it will be too late. Please remember that. All My Love Always GOD (Reply to this) |
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on Nov 30 2007 08:13 PM In reply to this comment (#1320143) Luckyleaf; I figure that you are posting this in the same attitude as the wonderful billboards we have seen in last few years that are supposed to be from God. I love them for thier simple way to putting forth the biblical passages/ideas that we are all in knowledge of but find so easy to push aside in our daily lives. However, you have just proven to the board that I was wrong. I guess that both sides of this can write short posts full of hatred and disdain. What makes it worse is that you are not reminding us of scripture, but actually writing as if you are God judging one individual. The Lord asked us to love our brothers, not judge them...that is His fathers job. Let us awaken those who know not better about this movie, not act as judge on those who support it. (Reply to this) |
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on Dec 01 2007 03:19 PM Heimdell You are right and I was wrong to post that "letter from God". Sometimes I don't think about my sense of humor and how it will be percieved, so to all who found that offensive I apologize. There was no hatred or disdain intended just an attempt at humor with a reminder that it's almost never too late to change and ask God's forgiveness. Like I am now, for being insensitive. (Reply to this) |
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on Dec 01 2007 04:42 PM In reply to this comment (#1321316) My friend I accept your apology and offer one of my own. I too have fallen short and have been judgemental without basis or means. Corinthians 11:30-31: "For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged." It is so easy to do the devils work, like I seem to have been doing lately, and I have done by judging you. I guess I should follow the Churches lead and show more restraint at this movie..or rather those who don't understand what it stands for. And yet... Amos 5:14-15: "Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken. Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph." The Bible also tells us that to turn the blind eye is just as evil a sin. I will not support this movie, and asked about or brought up in a conversation, I will tell those that I am with just why this movie is the last thing I will let my children see. "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these." It is the first day of December, the month of celebration of our Lord's birth. God gave us his Son to teach us the one thing we seemed to have missed over and over, and we find ourselves missing so many times today. I leave this board with love and a hope for peace. (Reply to this) |
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on Dec 01 2007 10:17 PM I've read the books and was totally oblivious to any religious controversy until I overheard a conversation recently. Am I just an idiot? I was not raised with religion, so maybe that has something to do with it. (Reply to this) |
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on Dec 02 2007 11:21 AM In reply to this comment (#1059195) I share your sentiments. Isn't it ironic that by attempting quiet any points of view (that they even perceive) is against them, they are only making themselves resemble "the majesterium" that much more? (Reply to this) |
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on Dec 02 2007 02:56 PM diehardskeptic As I read back through all the letters in the various threads on this site for this movie I see no one trying to stop you or anyone else from expressing your point of view. There are many people on both sides of this issue and all have been able to say whatever they wish. Some have presented their case with logical calm and others have been prone to hateful invective. That applies to both sides. Those of us in opposition to the ideals and agenda that Pullman and his crowd are espousing are, much like you, voicing our opinions. There are others out there who do not understand what the fuss is about and people on both sides are attempting to educate them to each point of view. I would never suggest that Pullmans works be pulled from the theaters, burn the books and imprison the author to silence him. The very idea of any society that would do that is simply barbaric. We americans are taught that all people have a right to free speech. He is excersizing his right. You are exercising your right. I am exercising mine. God Bless America. I am very grateful to live in a society where this is possible. There are far too many nations around the world where it would not be allowed. To you I say the same thing I said to my own brother, I love you, I respect your right to your opinion,I don't agree with you, so let us agree to disagree. (Reply to this) |
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on Dec 05 2007 04:21 AM If I were director Chris Weitz (or Phil Pullman), I'd be thrilled by the debate about the various interpretations of the movie plot. 'Controversy' is a viable marketing strategy, and prompting an emotional response is the goal of any moviemaker (or product marketer, actually). I've written a bit about the relevance of this issue to the business world at DIM BULB, at typepad (dot) com, if anybody would like to check it out. (Reply to this) |
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on Dec 05 2007 08:43 PM I guess I just get mad when ugly crap is geared towards children. (Reply to this) |
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on Dec 06 2007 05:25 PM In reply to this comment (#1059416) read the books till bout 1/3 way through last 3rd book ... love fantasy (huge Robert Jordan fan) and heavy WoW addict but when 3rd bok started using gods name specificly that was the last straw for me ..if most people were reading a fantasy book and it started using thier mum or dads name specifically in a way to say they were evil and liars i think most would be a bit offended (Reply to this) |
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on Dec 07 2007 08:25 AM In reply to this comment (#1059198) Excellent thought! Yes, people should have faith in their faith. No matter the intent of the author, we have control of our thoughts and intentions. If I remember correctly, the books mentioned Calvinists however, that is neither here nor there as this is an alternate world, an alternate reality. Why is it so difficult to separate truth from fiction? Imagination was given to us by God, for those of us who believe in Him. It is not a vehicle to condemn but a vehicle for learning and creativity. The Pharisees and Saducees who preached the law and threw it in Jesus' face only did so because they were scared of Him. He could see who they were and how they violated their own laws. The laws, while strict, only applied when it was in their favor. Try and imagine and be entertained. Do not condemn or the judgment that you place upon others will also be placed upon you when the appointed time comes. We have to differentiate between helping and judging. (Reply to this) |
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on Dec 09 2007 06:52 AM The idiocy of some religious groups is so appallingly ridiculous that it should become a research subject on human stupidity. This movie is about an evil, conformist, totalitarian, dogmatic religion that enslaves people - if catholics take offense by this fictional depiction of religion, then what does that say about their own religious set of beliefs? They're of course afraid children will be drawn to read other books by Pullman - which is "bad" because, you guessed it; he's an atheist!! He happens to reject the ridiculous claims of a book written in a time when scientific and empirical inquiry were unknown concepts. You ignorant, delusional, self-righteous, intellectually dishonest, morality-monopolizing cocksuckers. The stupidity of organized religion never ceases to amaze me, and yet there is a sort of taboo in criticizing it. Bull****, I say. I believe mockery of religion should be completely allowed and even encouraged. The stupidity has been going on for far too long. -Someone who is seriously fed up (Reply to this) |
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on Dec 20 2007 06:10 PM The reason (in my opinion as a Christian) there is so much conversation about this is simply because Pullman has 'Stated' and 'Proclaimed' his atheism. Tolkien, Lewis, and even Rowling never allowed their faith or beliefs to disrupt their artistry. Those authors never even mentioned God or Jesus, or any other known religious beliefs in their own classic tales. They merely give their 'good' characters decency and morality (with all their human flaws) and their 'evil' ones lust and greed (with the potential to do many evil deeds). What I mean to say is if Pullman had just shut up about his beliefs, then this discussion wouldn't have even begun. Also, my favorite author is Douglas Adams, who was an atheist. And in my 'Christian' opinion, I believe he's hanging out with God having a good laugh. (Reply to this) |
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on Dec 20 2007 06:13 PM The reason (in my opinion as a Christian) there is so much conversation about this is simply because Pullman has 'Stated' and 'Proclaimed' his atheism. Tolkien, Lewis, and even Rowling never allowed their faith or beliefs to disrupt their artistry. Those authors never even mentioned God or Jesus, or any other known religious beliefs in their own classic tales. They merely give their 'good' characters decency and morality (with all their human flaws) and their 'evil' ones lust and greed (with the potential to do many evil deeds). What I mean to say is if Pullman had just shut up about his beliefs, then this discussion wouldn't have even begun. Also, my favorite author is Douglas Adams, who was an atheist. And in my 'Christian' opinion, I believe he's hanging out with God having a good laugh. (Reply to this) |
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