ROTTEN TOMATOES: Vatican Gloats Over Weak Performance of The Golden Compass Comments

Vatican Gloats Over Weak Performance of The Golden Compass

by Jeff Giles | December 20, 2007

Summary

Attention, filmgoers who have seen and enjoyed The Golden Compass: According to The Vatican, you're either "dishonest" or you haven't been "gifted with a critical spirit." Back to Article

(1-101 of 101 posts) | Reply

RottenRob writes:
on Dec 20 2007 06:18 AM

God hates talking polar bears because they tried to ruin Christmas. Good for Him. Mr. Pullman, you'd better start worshipping Santa if you expect me to take MY children to see your books or read your movies.

Amen.

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jasperoosterveld writes:
on Dec 20 2007 06:24 AM

The church! You gotta love them! Especially the pope, great old german, such a good guy in the 2nd world war, beautiful all the buildings the vatican has, not stolen from poor peoples money at all, so considerate when 6 million jewish people got exterminated, so liberal when other people have different views, talk? No trow them on burning fire....do you want me to continue?

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dracus writes:
on Dec 20 2007 06:58 AM

Hey Jeff, it also could be that those who enjoyed The Golden Compass simply like crappy movies

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tomwaitsjr writes:
on Dec 20 2007 07:07 AM

We saw red (down below) or close enough to it in Billy Bathgate, courtesy of Kidman. She also played a nice young vixen in her first film (Australian).

We are now SATURATED with non-naked Nicole Kidman. Julianne Moore at least gave us that great scene in short cuts. That kind of stuff happens, you'll see any movie wanting MOORE of the red carpet.

Is there a movie Kidman won't make?

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tomwaitsjr writes:
on Dec 20 2007 07:08 AM

We saw red (down below) or close enough to it in Billy Bathgate, courtesy of Kidman. She also played a nice young vixen in her first film (Australian).

We are now SATURATED with non-naked Nicole Kidman. Julianne Moore at least gave us that great scene in short cuts. That kind of stuff happens, you'll see any movie wanting MOORE of the red carpet.

Is there a movie Kidman won't make?

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dracus writes:
on Dec 20 2007 07:08 AM

In reply to this comment (#1377657)
So what are you saying Jasper, that the pope and the Catholic Church were responsible for the holocaust? Ever hear of Hitler you ignorant moron? He also exterminated Catholics, news which I%u2019m thinking makes you smile today.

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dracus writes:
on Dec 20 2007 07:09 AM

So what are you saying Jasper, that the pope and the Catholic Church were responsible for the holocaust? Ever hear of Hitler you ignorant moron? He also exterminated Catholics which Im thinking makes you smile today.

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spnw85 writes:
on Dec 20 2007 07:14 AM

i was offended by this movie, because it is clear that those polar bears are abusing steroids! lets get mitchell on this, those bears are setting a poor example to the young cubs of today! i think all the bears should be tested, from Winnie to Yogi!

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jasperoosterveld writes:
on Dec 20 2007 07:18 AM

In reply to this comment (#1377783)
They didn't do enough to prevend it, but it's just one of the many examples that the vacation represents a lot thats wrong with this world.

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spnw85 writes:
on Dec 20 2007 07:23 AM

hey jasper, i personally like my vacation. i mean yeah, it might be a crappy hotel where the shower smells funny, but at least im not at work, right?

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dahluzz writes:
on Dec 20 2007 07:31 AM

as redonkulous as it is, i bet the denouncement of this movie by the bible-thumpers had a significant impact on ticket sales (or lack thereof). clearly many christians will believe whatever priests tell them. i mean priests told them there was a god and they believed that! how much more far-fetched does it get?

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arendr writes:
on Dec 20 2007 07:34 AM

Haha, that article is actually the first thing that's made me want to see the movie. Only a guilty conscience would write such an article.

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Morrinn writes:
on Dec 20 2007 07:36 AM

I'm confused... So the Vatican is just going to ignore the fact that The Golden Compass is doing fine outside of America?

Far from me to defend a movie that I haven't seen (and which isn't all that good, apparently) but this seems a bit disingenuous on Bernie the Rat's part.

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medicineman writes:
on Dec 20 2007 07:36 AM

I don't know Jasper; every time I take a vacation as you call it, feel great. Now, if you are referring to the Vatican representing a lot that's wrong with the world, I always thought it was the self-righteous USA. Vaccation huh? Dracus is right, you are a moron.

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AlbertBrodsky writes:
on Dec 20 2007 07:38 AM

This movie will flourish on DVD. People who are skeptical aren't going to watch it in the theatres, and then after deciding it's not the anti-christian hating movie that some moron sheep believe it to me, pay another 50 bucks to take their kids to it. It probably won't make enough to warrant the sequels, but who knows?

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Cindy_Lou_Who writes:
on Dec 20 2007 07:42 AM

Merry Christmas everyone, you too Jasper!

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AlbertBrodsky writes:
on Dec 20 2007 07:43 AM

In reply to this comment (#1377875)
This movie will flourish on DVD. People who are skeptical aren't going to watch it in the theatres, and then after deciding it's not the anti-christian hating movie that some moron sheep believe it to be, pay another 50 bucks to take their kids to it. It probably won't make enough to warrant the sequels, but who knows?

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welease_woger writes:
on Dec 20 2007 07:45 AM

What planet are you from Jasper? Stwike him centurwion, very woughly!

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Crenshaw writes:
on Dec 20 2007 07:48 AM

These squeaky-wheeled bastards are constantly making my religion look bad. My family is Catholic, my kids go to a Catholic school. Everyone in that school has no problem with the movie or the books. A couple of the more-"fervent" parents were concerned about the books in the school library. So the librarian, the principal and the PRIEST read them and not only did they have no problem with them, they thought they were a darn good read for the kids.

The reason the movie tanked was because of way more reasons than some blowhards saying "no" - if anything that would increase the attendance of the core audience. The reason this movie tanked was:

1) The marketing was rotten. Except for a few fans (and not THAT many of those) no one know what the hell this movie was. Was it for kids? Was it for grownups? Was it just another LOTR ripoff? Just look at Stardust for similar reasons.

2) Nicole Kidman is box office poison. Casting her AND James Bond made this look like a grownup movie that no one wanted to see.

3) The Trailers were confusing and did not help explain what the hell this movie was about.

4) 43% Tomatometer vs. 93% for Enchanted.

5) IT WAS STILL THE FREAKING #1 MOVIE FOR A WEEK. It just wasn't good enough to maintain and pull people away from other movies that they frankly wanted to see more.

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Morrinn writes:
on Dec 20 2007 07:49 AM

Smug seems to be the Vatican's default attitude as of late. But hey, happy yuletide to all!

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dedalus7 writes:
on Dec 20 2007 07:54 AM

I saw the Golden Compass over the weekend and found it to be very anti-christmas... I mean especially the music number at the end when Satan jumps out of the screen and killed half of the audience in a bloody orgy while singing "I Hate Christmas"... yeah that was a little over the top. And a little anti-audience come to think of it. But it was a hell of a time!

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Avi writes:
on Dec 20 2007 07:55 AM

minor Spoilers...

I thought the problem with the movie was they freaking CUT OUT THE ENDING.

Apparently they don't realize it's possible to read a book and appreciate it's message, but not be influenced by it? Geez. His Dark Materials, aside from the exterior of killing God and Dust and blah blah, is a story about growing up, leaving childhood for adolescence, becoming self-aware.

And really, there wasn't any heavy anti-church stuff in the first movie OR the first book.

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jasperoosterveld writes:
on Dec 20 2007 08:03 AM

All you Vatican lovers just keep living in your dreamworld :)

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blank blank writes:
on Dec 20 2007 08:06 AM

the movie was fine... nothing ground breaking, but it was a solid flick that would have been better served to keep the original ending...

anyways, im glad the church is protecting -in the words of peter griffin- jesus and snoopy and all the other children's characters from vicious computer generated bears

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Now it's dark writes:
on Dec 20 2007 08:07 AM

It should have been a little boy in the lead of the movie. There aren't enough equal opportunity child rapists in the the catholic church.

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m1garand6644 writes:
on Dec 20 2007 08:08 AM

In reply to this comment (#1377655)
The pope was a Nazi in the WWII era...and he still is. I mean, doesn't he believe in any freedom of choice whatsoever? Of course not, he wants you to mindlessly follow him while not looking at any "jewish art" as Hitler would have put it.

Poo on the vatican, they have bigger problems then The Golden Compass.

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insanemansam5 writes:
on Dec 20 2007 08:14 AM

Well we may not get a Golden Compass sequel but I think this article raises the bigger question of whether or not there's going to be a Iorek Vs. Aslan paper view match.

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spnw85 writes:
on Dec 20 2007 08:14 AM

wow! a bunch of ignorant nobodies making derogatory comments about anothers religion! goooo internet!

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jasperoosterveld writes:
on Dec 20 2007 08:22 AM

Ignorant? You call people who don't believe in fairy tales ignorant? That's really smart. Just keep supporting an institution that has so much blood on his hands you can't even describe it anymore, it's responsible for spreading the aids virus by denying condoms don't help and then we don't even talked about the constant gay bashing and don't respecting women. But you guys, just keep calling me an idiot, that's fine. At least i don't live in a dream world :)

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spnw85 writes:
on Dec 20 2007 08:23 AM

you can believe whatever you want dude, whats ignorant is putting down anothers beliefs.

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Carmoxa writes:
on Dec 20 2007 08:29 AM

Sweet, maybe Vatican should take a look at the big picture, because while it hasn't faired that great here, overseas its reached passed 100million (http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=40358). So I guess that means we will see sequels and yet more bitching from Christians, seems how the next 2 movies will have MUCH stronger religious tones (which they can't change because its sort of what the book is built around).

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AlbertBrodsky writes:
on Dec 20 2007 08:35 AM

Putting down another's beliefs is one thing, but questioning an institution with a history of error is necessary. You all can be sheep and do what ever the heads of your church tell you, but some of us believe in thinking for ourselves. I'm with jasper.

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RainNIU writes:
on Dec 20 2007 08:35 AM

I'm Catholic and those ignorant, pretentious, and intolerant knuckleheads in the Vatican continue to irritate me.

It's bad enough that the world hates us Americans, but now they hate my religion too. All due to forces outside my control. WTF.

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spnw85 writes:
on Dec 20 2007 08:43 AM

i never said people should worship blindly and i never said i agree with the criticism of the movie. first of all, its not like the pope himself is writing movie reviews, it came from some guy who writes for the paper. second, it is indeed lame that this guy even wrote that making them look like some smug little kid. there are always going to be people who get upset when any movie comes out involving religion. the jews got upset when passion of the christ came out, the catholics got upset with the davinci code came out, germany got all up in arms about tom cruise being a scientologist, the sith are constantly trying to erradicate the jedi, the church of the flying spaghetti monster is still not recognized as a legitimate religion... so on and so forth. i dont give a flying pasta about any of that, i just dont like people insulting an entire religion rather than the individual responsible for whatever you are upset about.

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TombstoneLawDog writes:
on Dec 20 2007 08:52 AM

Wow. The full might of the vatican and the movie was STILL #1 at the box office, even if weaker than projected.

Rock out, Vatican. All will live in fear. This is a great day for self-righteous, hypocritical thought-police douchebags, everywhere.

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artdude102 writes:
on Dec 20 2007 09:03 AM

Vatican hated the movie? Not enough choir boys in it I guess.

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kbnbkst writes:
on Dec 20 2007 09:09 AM

Imho the Vatican is being pretty silly. I saw the movie and except for the word demon (daemon?) I didn't see anything anti-Catholic Church in it. I didn't think the movie was that great, especially the ending but it was ok. Maybe 6/10.
*SPOILERS ABOUT I AM LEGEND*

It's disconcerting that Compass is bashed and shunned for being imagined to be anti-religious and this impacts it's box office. I Am Legend takes the original message of the book, turns it on it's head and makes it pro-god and the movie is doing huge box office. I Am Legend is a better picture imho but I hope film makers do not get the wrong idea from all this. I don't want to see a bunch of lame religious exploitation flics.

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dahluzz writes:
on Dec 20 2007 09:15 AM

In reply to this comment (#1377926)
uhh dude, it's PAY PER view. ya know, you pay for a specific viewing. Not Paper. I know you've always wondered why they would call it "Paper View," and now you know: they wouldn't.

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Kaleban writes:
on Dec 20 2007 09:15 AM

Well, its in the Vatican's best interests to encourage young children not to see movies at all, they want them to attend church where they can service the priests.

Poor altar boys...

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ap90033 writes:
on Dec 20 2007 09:16 AM

In reply to this comment (#1377867)
Self Righteous? Geez you dont even know me and you are slamming.. I am a jerk, a sinner, and was bound for Hell.. Until Jesus did what I could not do. He is my hero. I try not to be "self righteous" as the only one who is "Righteous" is Jesus.... :)

So go easy on the we hate the USA stuff k?

Jesus loves you and so do I :) !!!

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artdude102 writes:
on Dec 20 2007 09:22 AM

Vatican says: ""in Pullman's world, hope simply does not exist, because there is no salvation but only personal, individualistic capacity to control the situation and dominate events."

The book was entirely about hope- hope and freedom from an oppressive, mindless, fascist institution. I can see why the church hated it. They prove Pullman's point to the letter.

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Kaleban writes:
on Dec 20 2007 09:28 AM

In reply to this comment (#1377942)
Spnw85, putting down another's beliefs ALSO applies to Catholics/The Church bashing those who don't agree with them. Just because you're Catholic doesn't give you carte blanche to tell others which beliefs are right or wrong, that's the Jehovah's Witnesses' job.

Historical fact is frequently thrown out by many religious people to support their flagging faith and not so strong convictions. The Catholic Church DID have a policy of non-involvement during the Holocaust, DID believe the Earth was flat despite 500 years of scientific evidence, DID believe the Earth was the center of the Universe and excommunicated/imprisoned/killed many people because of it, and more such stupidities such as these.

The Catholics are frequently the ones to have knee-jerk reactions to any popular media that contradicts their strict, dogmatic views. Which is one reason why attendance and belief is at an all time low. The Vatican has shown time and again its mental resilience to fact and ACTUAL truth, opposed to their personal truths.

What's truly amusing is that the Catholics and the Vatican put SO little faith in both their religion and their holy texts. Other religions, such as Judaism and Islam, don't lose believers all that much it seems. Perhaps that's because they have a history and culture of constantly examining other religions as well as their own for inconsistencies, and while they have as much infighting as any religion within various sects, its not on the massive level of Christianity.

But ask yourself this, do you trust a person or persons who's belief in their faith and holy book could possibly be supplanted by a Hollywood movie? Why is it the Catholic Church is SO afraid of movies and books that challenge their dogmatic view of the world? Is it just possible that they KNOW that their religion is wrong, backward and run by power hungry political figures masquerading as men of faith? Nah, couldn't be.

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ninjaandy writes:
on Dec 20 2007 09:31 AM

Unbelievable.

Why is it that people insist on complaining about how orthodox Catholics give respectful attention to the 2000 year old wisdom of the church, yet those same people never question their high school history teachers?

There are so, so many errors in these posts I don't even know where to begin. So I'll just start on in.

1) Catholics were one of the largest groups, behind Jews, to be executed in WWII. If you don't know that, and if you don't know that the church at the time did everything in its power to help the Jewish people and disavow the Nazis, then in all charity you are an ignorant pussbag. Pinchas Lapids, a Jewish Israeli leader, personally credited the saving of over 400,000 Jewish lives to the Vatican (and no, I didn't get that from Wikipedia. It's called "knowledge", something some people keep in their heads).

L'Osservatore Romano is the same periodical that declared Nazi atrocities even before WWII started. The New York Times, many other contemporary secular papers, and even Albert Einstein were full of praise and good will toward the church's role in attacking the Nazis and defending the Jews. Any of you know more about Jewish history in WWII than Einstein? Didn't think so.

2) Anyone who thinks the "creaky-wheeled" Vatican is making "their" religion look bad doesn't understand their religion. The Vatican has made plenty of social mistakes and faux pas, but disassociating yourself with the religious teachings of the Vatican and pope is rejecting your Catholicism, not supporting it.

3) Catholics aren't "bible thumpers". In fact, as our protestant brethren will tell you, we usually don't read our bibles enough. If you're going to throw around angry, self-righteous insults, at least use the right ones. And yes, TombstoneLawDog, the church is full of hypocrites. But there's always room for one more, so stop on by sometime and check it out.

4) An article in a newspaper is not "the full might of the Vatican".

5) The Catholic church is responsible for some historical atrocities. Many of those atrocities have been made too much of, though, by parties who are interested in crapping on the church for whatever reason. Besides, atheists and non-believers are responsible for equal, or in some cases greater, tragedy in the name of unbelief than religious people are in supporting their religions. There are *******s in every cause, but that doesn't make the cause unjust or evil; I think we can all agree on that.

6) Apparently, RT is no longer interested in hiding its thinly-veiled anti-Catholicism. I suppose I can expect more of these topics in the future, and you guys can look forward to just as many responses like this one. That's not going to make anyone happy, is it?

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JUDGE DREDD writes:
on Dec 20 2007 09:41 AM

Of course the Catholic church hates it when kids go see this movie! For every lil boy sat in a cinema watching talking polar bears,
somewhere theres a bishop NOT getting his dick sucked!

Religion of all types DISCUSTS me in every way!
Were in the future dammit!!! grow up.

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happyicecream writes:
on Dec 20 2007 09:50 AM

In reply to this comment (#1377842)
hahahaha
I love the irnoy that goes on in these discussions.
I'm also for the extermination of steroid use in polar bears.

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Kaleban writes:
on Dec 20 2007 09:57 AM

OMG Ninjadaddy, talk about ignorant pussbags.

Einstein was a physicist, not a social scientist. The Catholic church's official stance on the Holocaust was to not get involved. That's the Vatican, the leadership. There were groups WITHIN the church who disagreed, and therefore gave aid and succor to itinerant jewish families, and were the ones responsible for saving the many jews who made it.

The Vatican, in making statements like these, DOES cast a bad light on their association with the real world and current events/culture. If I remember correctly, a religious belief is not embodied or attached by its earthly leadership, but exists in each person separately, which is why so many religions exist. Theology FTW. By distancing yourself from a corrupt political head of a religion because you disagree with their stupidity is not giving up your religion, but supporting it because you recognize the earthly mistakes of corrupt politicians.

Sort of like supporting the troops without supporting the idiotic leadership or the horribly managed war that the troops are forced to wage.

The problem with Catholic bible thumpers (yes they exist in vast numbers) is that they don't read their bibles enough, so their arguments are usually based on wrong information. When they're caught in a trap of logic or reason, they invoke such words as "heretics, you're going to hell for not loving Jesus" then run away crying.

The Church is responsible for many historical atrocities, and its difficult to "make too much of them" considering they're historical fact. Religions have been responsible for more pain and suffering on this planet than ALL secular groups combined, just look at the Crusades, the Holocaust, the Inquisition and more.

RT is not anti-catholic, the readers and forumites here are anti-stupid apparently. If you're going to bash secular people while trying to defend your religion, at least get your facts straight first.

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sunsaz writes:
on Dec 20 2007 10:09 AM

*sigh* This is why I stayed Methodist despite 8 years of Catholic schooling.

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LampEft writes:
on Dec 20 2007 10:10 AM

Dear Vatic-..er .. Magisterium: Bite Me.

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apostate writes:
on Dec 20 2007 10:19 AM

"Consoling?"

I believe the movie did poorly because it apparently wasn't very good. I think this whole religious thing has been blown out of proportion. Please get over yourself Vatican editorialists.

I believe we established a few centuries ago the universe doesn't revolve around you.

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spnw85 writes:
on Dec 20 2007 10:22 AM

kaleban, i agree with you! the catholic church has done some messed up stuff. so has america. slavery? not cool. im not here to defend any of that. im not here to defend anything, i dont need to defend my faith to a bunch of random dudes posting stuff on a message board online. all i was saying, and im sorry if this didnt come out clear enough, is that bashing someone else's beliefs, to the point of calling the faith stupid or "fairy tales" is not cool. you can disagree with it of course, its just not a very nice thing to do.

and i agree, if people are dumping their faiths becuase of some fantasy book or a movie, they werent that strong of believers in the first place. i actually read this book at THE catholic univeristy of america for a class taught by a jew! (gasp!) how crazy? (

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jokerboy1991 writes:
on Dec 20 2007 10:24 AM

Why cant the vatican just shut up, its just a movie. The vatican is stupid if they think it will effect the way catholics think of there religion. I love how cocky there acting, sure it did bad in the US but its actually doing pretty good in world wide. I wonder if theyll keep there conservative mouths shut when Angels and Demons comes out.

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Gimy writes:
on Dec 20 2007 10:47 AM

wow, talk about multitasking. you'd think they would have no time left to gloat after molesting children all day...

simply put, craig can't carry a movie other than bond and kidman is like gonerhia, anything she touches...just burns. the combination of them both, plus religious crazies...made this movie impossible to be profitable. i don't remember jesus freaks BRAGGING about evan almighty though...gee, i wonder why

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Don't Tase Me Bro writes:
on Dec 20 2007 10:56 AM

Morrinn:

"So the Vatican is just going to ignore the fact that The Golden Compass is doing fine outside of America?"

I sure would. Continental Europe (and England) have been lost to Atheism, Secularists and Islam...and combined the movie market pales in comparison to the US movie market where Christianity (by comparison) still is relevant. No one in Europe even cares about the subject matter of the film. Nope. Hasn't even made the slightest ripple.

If you had read any of the interviews about Pullman's feelings on Atheism, his hero Richard Dawkins, and what he ultimately wants for his books/movies on 'His Dark Materials' to do then you would understand why someone in the Vatican is being a bit smug that his film, financially, underperformed in the world's largest movie-market...

I watched the film. It sucked. Everything in the film, like Nicole Kidman's hair weave, was poorly stitched together. Ian McKellen stole the show with his voice. With ONLY his voice!

That's pretty lame when you look at how much money they dumped overpaying their stars, casting a child-actress with as much talent as Jake Lloyd in 'Phantom Menace', and cobbling together sub-par digital graphics...

The film invites ridicule and deserves it! Whether it's coming from the Vatican, or Al Qaeda!

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yowazup13 writes:
on Dec 20 2007 10:58 AM

Just in time for next week's "Vatican Newsletter," "Vatican movie critic burned at the stake for attending 'The Golden Compass'."

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Don't Tase Me Bro writes:
on Dec 20 2007 11:03 AM

"No one in Europe even cares about the subject matter of the film."

To clarify, by "no one" I would mean special interest groups, et al obviously excluding the Vatican...

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BowieSwimmer writes:
on Dec 20 2007 11:13 AM

I'm sure Jesus would have picked the same fight Vatican.
Good job!
You're surely conserned with what matters most in the world right now.
I mean, God forbid, you should start writting more editorials about how church attendance continues to plummit due to the inability to connect to the masses and Church corruption...

Ohh whoops. Touchy subject?

PS: I agree Crenshaw, the marketing was HORRENDOUS.

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DariusVIII writes:
on Dec 20 2007 11:26 AM

What all this says to me is that the Catholic Church thinks the vast majority of its members are not smart enough to recognize when a book or movie is released in the genre of "fiction." This isn't some book going on a historical crusade against the church, listing all of the bad things the church has done in an effort to undermine and bash Catholicism. It is fiction. And if the author did intend some church bashing, well, that's freedom of speech. It is pretty sad that the church has to publicly denounce a fictional movie, in an attempt to prevent its members from seeing it. Are they perhaps worried that its members may believe that the church of our world actually did some of these things, or something similar, and consequently have their faith shaken, or (gasp) abandon their religion altogether? This tells me that the Catholic Church a) feels like its members are below average intelligence, and b) their faith may not be that strong. You would hope that the leaders of a particular religion would think that its followers have been enlightened and enhanced by following their beliefs, but apparently the Catholic Church thinks the opposite: that Catholics around the world need a formal decree from the leadership in order to not be sucked in by this satanic work of fiction, and that they cannot decide for themselves what to take and perhaps learn from this story.

With that being said, let me clarify that this is just a critical opinion on the church leadership. I am not attempting to bash the Catholic religion in any way. I went to a Catholic high school, and all, I mean all, of my relatives are Catholic, a result of my Polish/Irish heritage. I myself am not for a number of reasons, including that the leadership of the church is often stupid and pompous, particularly now. JPII was the man, though.

Also, I have not seen the movie itself, because of its reception on RT. But I have read all three books, and they are excellent, particularly 2 and 3. They just get better as they go along. I hope they can get a better director on board for 2 and 3, espcially because Mr. Weitz seemed to favor special effects and eye candy over emotion and character development. This apparently gave the movie a "cold" vibe. However, that is somewhat in line with the feelings the books give off. The first one was by far the most detatched, and also took place in the Arctic. The second and third books get much more emotional, and much more interesting. I can't wait to see what the church has to say about the third book, when the huge battle takes place and (another gasp) the bad guys are the church, Heaven's angels, and God himself (although for those who have read it, that last part turns out to be not entirely true). Here's to hoping they can do 2 and 3 justice though.

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Exode writes:
on Dec 20 2007 11:33 AM

What a horrible religion, accept Christ as your loving god or he'll cast you into eternal agonizing pain. So what, a tribe isolated from the civilized outside world who've never even heard of Christianity would burn in Hell even though they never had a chance? Apparently Christ died for the sins of all mankind but if you've never heard of him you're screwed.

And I wouldn't forget the wonders of faith, if you see any flaws in the religion whatsoever simply ignore it, how convenient, that really worked well for Catholics before the bible's translation. For a religion about faith the church certainly seems often desperate to prove its validity with scientific facts, even that doesn't work. Even the stories of the bible could have easily been manipulated as opposed to what actually happened, it was written an entire generation after the actual events so enough time passed for the truth to have been somewhat forgotten.

The only way to correct the world in this regard is to disprove all religion, accept God's existence as a simple possibility but never actually assume anything about it.
Accept that Christ was a possibility, but had little probability. Accept nothing as fact, always a possibility. Same goes for any religion, God is a possible variable to the origin of our advanced reality, may or may not exist, it would simply be a religion of a spectrum of possibilities. Nothing in this religion would ever be accepted as fact but would be measured in the form of probability, and even that would be an opinion.

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mouse_clicker writes:
on Dec 20 2007 11:35 AM

I wonder if the Vatican gloated when The Nativity Story kind of bombed at the box office and got poor reviews...

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yowazup13 writes:
on Dec 20 2007 11:40 AM

Gandalf's voice: 950,000$ to gain the talent of Sir Ian. Talking Polar Bears: 4,650,000$ spent on CGI. The amount of bigotry caused by a dream the Pope once had involing talking polar bears and Gandalf giving the Pope the ol' "Pullman": Priceless

Seriously though, the church hates an open mind. Most major religions hate an open mind. Oh wait no, it's most governments that hate an open mind. I get those two mixed up all the time, because they're the SAME damn thing.

(Reply to this)

Blank Frank writes:
on Dec 20 2007 11:45 AM

Woohoo, religious flamewar!

The Vatican can be as smug as it wants, but if they believe that their criticism and disapproval alone caused so-so box-office returns, I think they're deluding themselves; all of that didn't seem to hinder the returns on Harry Potter, in print or on film.

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Cogliostro writes:
on Dec 20 2007 12:12 PM

The Vatican is always good for a un-intended laugh.

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ImaRobot writes:
on Dec 20 2007 12:22 PM

Jasper:
nobody (i don't think is calling you ignorant for your beliefs on Catholicism. They're calling you ignorant for saying things like: "an institution that has so much blood on his hands you can't even describe it anymore" and "we don't even talked about the constant gay bashing and don't respecting women."
Unless English is not your first language or you are eight, this does come off as idiocy.

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AlbertBrodsky writes:
on Dec 20 2007 12:46 PM

Jesus, maybe if RT could come up with some actual news so we could change the ****ing subject.

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TombstoneLawDog writes:
on Dec 20 2007 12:52 PM

For a hot second, I was impressed by the passionate scholarship this debate is ushering forth on RT, from both sides..

..Then someone spelled it 'conSerned.' (It's with a 'C,' for those who were concerned)

Lord, you gave them spell-check, but they do not see (or spell).

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thamoviemann writes:
on Dec 20 2007 01:04 PM

The movie is doing excellent overseas though, what about that.

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VML writes:
on Dec 20 2007 01:22 PM

what's wrong with free thinking, Vatican?

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StupidSmurf writes:
on Dec 20 2007 01:33 PM

Sorry, as many issues I have with the Catholic Church, I at least can't fault them for gloating.

Come on....What if someone came up to you and said "I don't like you and I wish you were dead. Not only you, but also any organizations that support and promote you. I want to see them gone. And these beliefs are in my work, which incidentally, has been made into a movie."

And then the movie does mediocre business at the box office.

I don't know about you, but I'd be going all Nelson Muntz on that 'someone'.

Now THAT would be a good marketing move for the Vatican. Selling T-shirts showing Nelson Muntz wearing a bishop's mitre and pointing at an armored bear while saying "HA-ha!". Why, they'd make millions! Thousands even!

And now, one question: Define "excellent" overseas. What are the numbers? What are the returns? Show me some facts.

And an observation: Personally I think the movie's tanking because it, well, just isn't very good. Just how many fantasy epics have we been exposed to in the last five years? Frankly, I think the movie just isn't good enough to overcome the public's over-exposure to the genre.

Interestingly enough, the Vatican film critic's line about the movie being "....devoid of any emotion..." seems to mirror the complaint I've seen from a few reviews linked from right here at good old RT. The movie has no soul, no spark or fire.

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mouse_clicker writes:
on Dec 20 2007 01:41 PM

Smurf: According to BoxOfficeMojo (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=goldencompass.htm), the movie has made roughly $91 million overseas, from roughly two weeks since it first opened anywhere. That's twice as much as it's made domestically. So it's quite good-- don't know if I'd say excellent, per say-- but still good. Those are the numbers, anyhow.

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arendr writes:
on Dec 20 2007 02:12 PM

I heard Jesus got some pretty bad reviews when he first started out. I mean, those critics absolutely crucified him! But he sort of turned into a cult-classic, and now everyone wants to change their original reviews.

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StupidSmurf writes:
on Dec 20 2007 02:15 PM

In reply to this comment (#1379184)
Excellent! Thanks, Mouse! That's just what I was looking for.

Yes, it's looking pretty good world-wide. I think perhaps the expectation was that this movie was going to be some kind of blockbuster.

The only explanation I can even attempt here, is in the form of guessing. Perhaps more movies open/are available in the U.S., and thus the competition is stiffer here in the USA? Again, take the idea of possibly jaded American audiences, coupled with more choices, and you get mediocre American box office performance. Ah well..just a guess, anyway.

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Novastar. writes:
on Dec 20 2007 02:45 PM

The next movie will be called 'The Golden Compassion of the Christ',that will piss off more people.

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kROCK writes:
on Dec 20 2007 02:47 PM

I still can't believe they said the works are devoid of hope. The entire trilogy is about hope. I happen to know many other people who are Christians, and they happened to love the books like me. I mean, not to bash the Bible or anything, but there's quite a few stories in there that are less than hopeful.

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elmokajaky writes:
on Dec 20 2007 03:16 PM

The Vatican needs to get back to molesting altar boys and STFU.

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gamejediben writes:
on Dec 20 2007 03:22 PM

It failed because the movie sucked. End of story. Not because the christians told everyone to not go see it. The books weren't that much better either. They weren't incredibly original and there are several better fantasy stories out there already. J.R.R. Tolkein, C.S. Lewis, Robert Jordan and J.K. Rowling are simply much better writers. Who cares about "The Golden Compass" and "Eregon" when we fantasy fans really want to see "The Wheel of Time" series and "The Hobbit" made into films.

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cjjojay writes:
on Dec 20 2007 03:26 PM

While I don't agree with this instantaneous bashing, I understand that they are just not sitting down on something they don't like. At the end of the day, these books are bashing catholicism, which is undeniable. I am a devote Christian, but I also loved the books (though I think the story looses its way a bit at the end). I have nothing against catholics, but there have been overbearing figures from that religion. The problem is when people overuse power the religion gets blamed for it. Comments like these only give people fuel to blame it more. If another form of Christianity was the most common and the same situation happened we would get the same response. A nondenominational Christian overusing power is just as bad as a Catholic doing it. To get biblical, Jesus blamed the pharisees who overused power, but who did he say the most famous verse in the bible (John 3:16) to? A pharisee! Pullman is justified in his disdain, but he seems to think that the religion is the main reason for what he does not like in it. Instead of putting people away, shouldn't we accept people like this more? Lets show him that he is wrong, not that he is evil. I'd rather help him get to heaven than condemn him to hell. He is such a smart person, I'd hate to loose that! (Haha, ok, that sounded arrogant, but you get the point)

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cjjojay writes:
on Dec 20 2007 03:31 PM

In reply to this comment (#1379849)
Anyway, the movie just was not promoted well, plus the books have more of an underground following anyway. I wish it would have been more successful, but oh well. If I become a famous director someday people I announce that I will try to make "The Subtle Knife"! I'm sure I'll get some support.

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renodc writes:
on Dec 20 2007 03:39 PM

As a Christian, I find it rather irritating that the Vatican is attacking people as being "not gifted with a critical spirit" when just the existence of the Pope and the Vatican itself flies in the face of all that Christianity stands for. The Vatican and most (I said most, not all) of the Traditional Catholic Church are nothing more than Modern Day Pharisees and Sadducees. Biblically, the Pope has no authority, Bishops have no authority, Priests have no authority, the Saints have no authority and Mary has no authority. All authority is in Jesus. The Vatican is simply a political structure that has devised a way to use parts of the Bible (primarily Old Testament law) and their own "made up" theology to hold authority over people. If you think Philip Pullman and Dan Brown are rough on the Catholic church, then try reading some of the works of Martin Luther.

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arendr writes:
on Dec 20 2007 04:01 PM

"If you think Philip Pullman and Dan Brown are rough on the Catholic church, then try reading some of the works of Martin Luther."

Probably the smartest point made in this thread so far.

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omelette writes:
on Dec 20 2007 04:29 PM

In reply to this comment (#1377911)
Wow.
I'm not even Catholic, and this comment pissed me off.
Sure, there's some total creeps in the church, but ignorant people like you paint the whole church to be bad. It's really not. Do some research before making such harsh and idiotic claims.

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RottenRob writes:
on Dec 20 2007 04:47 PM

In reply to this comment (#1378717)
spnw85, stop being so thoughtful and rational and just let everybody vent randomly, won't you?

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edgarandstephen writes:
on Dec 20 2007 06:33 PM

its obvious the writer of this article likes the golden compass.....taking an honest stance (ive read all 3 books) this movie sucked. i hope they devote their time to something else rather than continuing with this franchise....if the director would have stuck with the book ending, and not cut out so much material, this would have been a much better film....who cares if the catholic church says it sucks- this shouldnt matter because it did in fact suck

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reefermad16 writes:
on Dec 20 2007 06:38 PM

The Golden Compass is flopping in the US but worldwide its doing alright, in the end it will probably make back it's 180 million dollar budget and get it's sequel, but i hope not,the golden compass is just a retarded story mixed with boring characters and a lot of hype for no reason.

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Oh Dae Su writes:
on Dec 20 2007 07:11 PM

Wooo, since when did people start listening to the Vatican church?

The movie was god awful, get your head out of your ***, stupid Vaticans

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MMacKK writes:
on Dec 20 2007 07:52 PM

****ing Religion. So much for the accepting and loving establishment that its meant to be.

God praise Atheism!

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RedConverse writes:
on Dec 20 2007 10:28 PM

Wow, if you're going to post news, can't you do it without extremely slanting the story to favor your own bias and personal feelings? Aren't news reporters supposed to know better than that?

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willchris writes:
on Dec 21 2007 01:21 AM

If we haven't already stopped believing in God and a heaven above due to all the cover-ups by the Vatican of pedophile priests, I don't think a film with 007 & and the woman formerly known as "Mrs. Cruise" can make us and our children swith to the "dark side."

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Dave the Destroyer writes:
on Dec 21 2007 05:04 AM

Everybody forgets a crucial distinction - the Vatican is not a religion itself, nor is it even a church - it is a BUSINESS, and it's business is promoting the Catholic religion - and then reaping the profits of that promotion.

Going after "The Golden Compass" wasn't a pious act of faith, it was simply bashing a competitor's product, the same way that Chevrolet will claim that it's trucks are better than Ford's (or vice versa). "Looky, Looky, not as many customers went to see "The Golden Compass" as their Marketing Division anticipated. That PROVES that OUR Fantasy Product is the PREFFERED item! Where's our bonuses?"

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greccogirl writes:
on Dec 21 2007 09:28 AM

Look, the movie sucked, so if it gives those that hate it revenge, who cares?

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trenen writes:
on Dec 21 2007 09:56 AM

jeeze...it must not be that bad...Kidman is a very devoute and traditional Catholic. i guess nobody knew that, huh?

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trenen writes:
on Dec 21 2007 10:02 AM

oh...and Jesus was a Jew...how could the Catholic Faith possibly be true when they don't believe the very fact of Jesus' and his Apostle's true faith?

didn't the Vatican also ban the movie "Stigmata" from being viewed? i think it's some sort of 'auto-damnation' if a Catholic watches it...either that or a few hundred hail-marys will fix it as pennance.

pathetic.

and don't get on my *** about proper grammar...it's the Web.

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bookworm1994 writes:
on Dec 21 2007 01:00 PM

I love seeing the Vatican stumble and fall. People need to get off their high horse really soon.

And Jasper . . . yes, you are a moron. Just move to Iran and become friends with the president.

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TheBerserker writes:
on Dec 21 2007 01:18 PM

I don't give a **** about any of this. Why am I even posting?

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BoratLover writes:
on Dec 24 2007 04:14 PM

Ofcource the vatican is going to bag out GC

"New Yorker journalist Laura Miller has described Pullman as one of England's most outspoken atheists"

What the vatican says has no bearing on weather the movie is good or not. And if your an Atheist who is going to see a movie just because the vatican doesn't like it, it is as bad as going to see Battle Field Earth for any other reason than to laugh at how horrible it is

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curefreak writes:
on Dec 24 2007 11:43 PM

The main reason i wanted to see this movie was because of all the anti christian controversy--- unfortunately there was none to be found in the movie but i still enjoyed it anyways.
Beowulf also had a slight anti christian theme but noones talking about that !

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vaodsi writes:
on Dec 27 2007 02:14 AM

i'm christian, and i wassn't offended. dumb movie though. it bored me. i don't care if a movie shocks me, mocks me, or offends me, so long as it makes me FEEL SOMETHING other than tired, tired, tired, tired, tired......
anyway, i do think it's sad that some people in the christian fath have absolutely NO faith. I mean, people seriously are freaked out about a movie with talking polar bears. CHRISTIANS! THIS IS CALLED FICTION! HAVE SOME FAITH IN YOUR OWN FAITH!
and spnw85.... you are awesome!

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echipj writes:
on Dec 29 2007 07:14 AM

In reply to this comment (#1377824)
Your history is all screwed up. Were this not a stupid movie board, I woudl ask you to delineate what a bunch of unarmed priests could have done to prevent the murder of six million Jews and countless hundreds of thousands of other folks (Catholics included...ever hear of Maximillian Kolbe?). But since it's a stupid movie board, I'll just sigh deeply (SIGH!), tell you you're misinfomrmed, and move on.

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echipj writes:
on Dec 29 2007 07:21 AM

In reply to this comment (#1377861)
DOing fine outside America isn't sufficient reason to spend millions making a sequel. So...Good riddance.

And for those who don't think this book is anti-Catholic...anyone know what the "real" Magisterium is? Hmmm? Take a look on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magisterium). There are no alternate definitions of any note...so.

But hey...go see it! Buy the books! My 15 year old figured out Pullman's agenda at 12; she's not goig to hell (at least, not for reading a stupid trilogy).

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echipj writes:
on Dec 29 2007 07:23 AM

In reply to this comment (#1380673)
But...the movie sucks! What's that got to do with being loving? I love you...you say stupid things. Those two facts don't contradict one another, any more than "I love you...you shouldn't stand in the middle of the street, because there is a truck coming". Wrong is wrong; it'd be hateful of me NOT to tell you, dopey!

(Reply to this)

echipj writes:
on Dec 29 2007 07:25 AM

In reply to this comment (#1382474)
Nicole Kidman is neither particularly devout, nor particularly traditional. Were she either, none of you would know the color of her pubic hair by other than guessing.

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Matios writes:
on Jun 21 2008 02:26 AM

In reply to this comment (#1377657)
Jasper.

Please remember that all the things you mention about the Church were done by people in the Church who were white.

We all know the kind of track record white people have.

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