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Ash J. Gilmore
At least Bane was still a badass.
Jun 13 - 07:28 AM
Jun 13 - 09:38 AM
I love that stupid Bane voice. I'll be using that tonight during my set (stand up comedy).
Jun 9 - 07:42 AM
I was going to elaborate a lot more on why I am not in favor of either twist, but then I realized that I was just typing way too much for one of these posts. So I'll just say this. I think the twists in "The Dark Knight Rises" and "Iron Man 3" made the storylines and conflicts less interesting and that's the root of the problem with them.
Befor the twist in "Rises" Bane and Batman had both a perfect personal and thematic dynamic between them rooted in their backstories, skills, and accomplishments that was just sucked out of the film when they reveal Talia (at what was literally the last second) and that so much of what we knew about Bane was untrue and casts a shadow on everything so we're not sure if anything we know about Bane as a character is true other than he was Talia's defender in the pit. Not to mention it was all topped off with one of the most indignant deaths for a comic book movie supervillain.
Switching out the Mandarin we were led to believe would be in the film for Aldrich Killian just gave us something a lot more generic and felt too much like a retread of characters we've seen in both of the previous Iron Man films. (Obadiah Stane and Justin Hammer). Which is very disappointing because either a Mandarin closer to his comic book counterpart or even the one Kingsley seemed to be playing and we were told we were going to get would have been a lot more interesting and unique than using another corrupt double dealing American businessman whose endgame is being out for his own profits. The twists didn't completely ruin the films for me like they did for some other people, but they did make potentially very interesting characters into something less so by swapping them out for somebody else in one way or another.
Both were akin to the Ra's Al Ghul twist from "Batman Begins", however I think that was handled far better than either of these other ones as it allowed us to still have a Ra's Al Ghul in the film that was pretty close to his classic counterpart, his Al Ghul traits were well displayed and fleshed out before the twist even occured (rather than slapping on some things at the very end to try to convince people it counted like with Killian as Mandarin), it was timed well with a well developed character who got to stretch his legs as the lead bad guy (and thus was not put in at the last second like Talia), added an extra layer to the character without taking anything away from anybody else or even really changing that much about the character himself(such as what was done to Bane, seeing as Ra's' decoy was never really developed to begin with. And though Jonathan Crane was the face of evil for the film's middle portion, he pretty early on references the fact that he has a mysterious employer and there was no need to give any of the backstory or accomplishments that he had and give them to Ra's), and heightened the personal drama/stakes rather than weakening them and or making the dynamic with the villain less interesting. (It revealed to Bruce that the great nemesis he was facing at the time, the mysterious boss of Jonathan Crane who also was manipulating Carmine Falcone, was actually his close friend and father figure who had not only trained him but helped give him a path in life, and a life he himself saved when the League of Shadow base went up in flames. Naturally he knew he was allied with the league, but learned he was always the mastermind behind everything the League did and tried manipulating him. As well as learning that it was the League of Shadows under Ra's' command that through economics created the depression that created the people like Joe Chill. Chill being the one who'd go on to kill his parents.)
If I were choose to which twist from the two films in question annoyed me more, I'd probably say it was the one from "Iron Man 3". As I said, not all of these sorts of twists competely bug me just from the very idea of them. But they don't need to be done in order to attmpt to shake things up or make things more interesting. I mean take a look at "The Dark Knight" and "Skyfall" for instance. (I would probably even in fact say that in a sense "Skyfall" was the film I sort of wanted both "The Dark Knight Rises" and "Iron Man 3" to be when going into them. Not exactly naturally, but from a certain standpoint.) Both were engaging, intriguing, interesting, have some unexpected things, and laden with themes and complex characters. But neither felt the need to put in a big twist to try and shake things up and get a big shock factor. There's nothing wrong with a more straightforward hero and villain conflict. If anything, it even potentially allows more time for the rivalary between the character (and the villain him or herself even) to grow/be developed and make the payoff feel all the more satisfying. And personally, those two films satisfied me a lot more both on the whole and from the villain angle than either "The Dark Knight Rises" or "Iron Man 3" did. Though agai
Jun 3 - 06:51 PM
Agreed, both are great films, but have one big glaring problem.
Jun 12 - 08:32 PM
Loved IM3. Downey and Paltrow were at the top of their game, ditto Ben Kingsley. But they needed someone more talented than Guy Pearce to play the villainous Aldrich Killian. I had the same prob with Tom Hardy in "Dark Knight Rises". Bane's performance was completely forgettable the day after I saw it. Pearce's wasn't much better. Could it be that the directors of both movies chose not to feature a name actor/villain to steal the spotlight from the star/hero? Just wondering.
May 22 - 06:39 PM
I though Hardy was great and Pearce was decent; I don't think the directors would make the villain intentionally bad to make the hero shine, remember Ledger in Dark Knight, he stole the show from Batman and it worked perfectly, so I wouldn't say either film did that. The thing both films was mishandle their villains and miss the point on both.
May 23 - 10:45 AM
The plot twist was great in both movies. The fake Bane was still awesome, and the actor twist was hilarious. Plus both were unexpected and original.
May 17 - 05:58 PM
Well yeah they were unexpected, but I wouldn't go as far as say original. I agree with Bane, but disagree with Mandarin.
May 18 - 08:32 AM
Lord Diego John Tutweiller of Trolldonia
BANE IS A LITTLE SON OF A BITCH, HE STOLE MY MASK. I WILL FIGHT THAT MOTHERFUCKER AND TAKE HIS 'ROIDS-WRINKLED ASS DOWN ANY FUCKING DAY OF THE WEEK!!!
May 13 - 05:51 PM
YOU TELL HIM VADER, AND FUCK UP LUCAS AS WELL FOR MAKING YOU LOOK LIKE A LITTLE BITCH IN THE PREQUELS.
May 13 - 06:12 PM
I FUCKING WILL, THAT LUMBERJACK-SHIRT WEARING FAT-ASS MOTHERFUCKER, HE GAVE ME A BOWL CUT. A FUCKING BOWL CUT!!!
May 15 - 04:39 PM
EVEN WORSE HE DIDN'T EVEN LET YOU GET DOWN ON NATALIE IN THE FILM.
May 16 - 09:54 AM
SEE? THIS IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF SHIT I'M TALKING ABOUT. THANK YOU, PEDRO. SOMEBODY UNDERSTANDS MY SUFFERING.
May 16 - 02:24 PM
Well me and the millions that had to sit through the most disgusting, atrocious, horrifying, tragedies in film history; the Star Wars prequels.
May 16 - 04:44 PM
At least Bane was still a badass after we found out that he wasn't the mastermind. He was still an evil douchebag. The same cannot be said for the Mandarin.
May 13 - 01:27 PM
Very true for Bane, he was still a great villain and had had evil intentions; but wasn't the sole mastermind and from what I saw, really looks like he didn't contribute to much to Talia's plan.
May 13 - 01:34 PM
Bane loved Talia, but he wasn't her bitch. After she said, "don't kill him," as soon as she walked out, he was about to shoot Batman in the head.
May 14 - 01:15 PM
Like I already said, yes he did disobey her, and I think that was in Bane's mind at least to make her happy one final time and make sure her plan went through without any further complications. What am I trying to get across is that in both films Bane and Mandarin were in a sense cast aside for a new plot that kind of complicated the film just a bit.
May 14 - 03:58 PM
I thought Bane's death was done badly, but other than that, I thought it was fine.
May 14 - 05:24 PM
Again, Banes character was very well done, I just didn't agree with making him a pawn , or sidekick what ever you prefer.
May 15 - 01:07 PM
More like partner.
May 16 - 04:02 AM
Technically Bane was the mastermind. Look at it this way: Bane and Talia's plans were like a movie, only that Talia's was the producer while Bane was the director
May 16 - 04:01 AM
That's actually a real great way of looking at it, props.
May 16 - 09:52 AM
Trevor wasn't the real Mandarin. It was Aldrich Killian
May 12 - 08:31 PM
Then what's the point of having Mandarin? If you're going to use him, use him. Iron Man 3 shouldn't have really used him for any reason and just develop Killian much more.
May 13 - 01:35 PM
That makes no sense Pedro. Not only was Bane an important part of Talias backstory but we actually got the real Bane from beginning to end. We got to see Batman and Bane beat the snot out of each other. There was no Mandarin in Iron Man 3. Total false advertisement on Marvels part.
May 12 - 11:49 AM
For Bane I'll say this, as the film progressed he was truly spectacular in almost every way Joker was, just with more physical power. He looked like one of the greatest on screen villains ever written and in my book at least was about to go down as one of the greatest ever; until Talias storyline comes in and made him a pawn that basically contributed nothing to the plot and was just there as a decoy rather than the mastermind. Mandarin on the other looked like he had so much potential and looked to be a true force, but turned out to be a drunk sex addict actor for the guy who developed the Extremis virus. What I was saying was both films make both of them look like masterminds of evil with so much potential to be great, just to have some really poorly executed twist come about.
May 12 - 04:37 PM
Bane..spectacular? Yea and so was the dump I took this morning. Joker was spectacular. As was Nolan's writing before the rushed DK rises. I'd say The "real" Mandarin was not what you butt-hurts expected so you get all mad about a failed bane that you misplace your anger towards a plot twist that was needed. What was the "real mandarin" going to do..use his canon lore rings to destroy Iron man and make some D.Knight plot mixed with more captain planet like lore and stupid $hit nobody cares about except the die hard comic readers. FYI NONE of the movies are following the true canon I'm not even a comic buff and I know that mr Siskell and Ebert over here worshipping bane please.
May 13 - 06:05 AM
For the majority of the film, Bane was directed great and Hardy did a great job as Bane. I didn't mind Killian that much, he just wasn't I was expecting. Yet again, you fail to realize threads are used to share opinions and are do not mean someone is "butt-hurt". Bane and Mandarin both were built up, showed potential, then pushed aside for a new plot that wasn't that all great. There is no reason for you to be so hostile here and not make any sense just because someone sees a film a different light than you.
May 13 - 02:32 PM
@Johnny Phive Two words fuck you. Two words now wasted.
May 13 - 06:31 PM
The Dark Knight Rises was a filmmaker's attempt at using actual comic book history of Bane & cramming it in a 3 hour movie. Kudos for using actual things that happened to Bane in the comic books (yes, there was a point he was underneath Talia. She loved him for a minute & then hated him, but used him for her gain. That actually happened in the comics). But I sympathize with attempting to cram soooo much info into a 3 hour movie. I liked the movie, but I do also get why many didn't. Nothing will top the Dark Knight when it comes to comic book movies.
May 13 - 08:13 AM
Actually, I liked The Dark Knight Rises, it wasn't better than the Dark Knight in any way, but was still worth the watch. While they used that storyline, I really wish they didn't, it really isn't the best one out there Nolan could of used.
May 13 - 02:33 PM
False advertisement? What are you buying shoe cleaner you dumba$$. A plot twist isn't "false adv." and if you saw the movie because of the advertising don't ever watch a movie again because news flash.....it's NEVER going to reveal what the movie is truly about and tell you the ending you waste of dna.
May 13 - 05:46 AM
Honestly don't know why you wrote about shoe cleaner, but I'm just going to move away from that and respond to what else you wrote. First, there is nothing wrong with a plot twist, however, a plot twist is bad when he film misuses it. The film advertised Mandarin, I expect Mandarin, I have a right to comment on that decision, both positive and negative. A film won't ever reveal its twist in a trailer, that is true, so you actually got something right, surprisingly. Also, how am I a waste of DNA?
May 13 - 02:27 PM
Bane was an intelligent, calculating, powerful character in DKR. Kingsley's Mandarin is literally a joke. Talk about pulling the rug out from under our feet...
May 12 - 06:48 AM
Yes Bane was powerful, but was he really all that intelligent and calculating; keep in mind this was Talia's plan and he was just there to make sure it went well and for the most part just went along for the ride. Both films pulled the rugs from our feet in this sense.
May 12 - 04:39 PM
I'm not sure everything Bane did was specifically dictated by Talia; she was his inspiration, but that doesn't mean he didn't contribute to the grand plan. I never felt like the rug was pulled out in DKR; if anything, it made Bane a more sympathetic character and made his motivations clearer. The Mandarin, by comparison...
May 13 - 04:45 AM
You see from my prospective Bane was made the whole film to be this source of evil, I think making him sympathetic was a bad choice on Nolan's part. Maybe in a sense he contributed; however, Talia was the main planner in the plot; Bane really didn't contribute to much as far as I saw.
May 13 - 01:23 PM
Please kill yourself, your wasting my earth's oxygen with such ignorance.
May 13 - 05:47 AM
Ignorance, how am I being ignorant. The threads on this website are to share opinions on a certain film and allow other users to comment. That is no reason in any sense to as you say kill ones self, also really that was the best insult you could come up with. Lastly, you used the wrong form of your, you should have used you're.
Nop. Who are you even talking to?
Aug 1 - 03:37 PM
Ben Kingsly as Trevor, not Mandarin, was a bit of a let down, but I think that the story is comparable to Ultimate Comics Iron Man. The Mandarin in Ultimate Comics is just an organization that rules by economic terrorism -- Much like how Aldrich Killian was planning to do with his "AIM." Most Marvel Movies are more based on the Ultimate Universe than the original mainstream.
May 12 - 12:07 AM
While that is true, the film both advertised and showed a bit of Mandarin as classic Mandarin with the intentions and his rings. If they meant to show Ultimate Comics, they should have advertised that better.
May 12 - 04:46 PM
That's a false statement. The movies are 90% based on 616 continuity.
May 12 - 08:19 PM
No they're not. The whole "Chitauri" thing? That was an Ultimate thing. There are plots taken from 616, but they are much more like Ultimate due to the time the take place in. Mark Millar, writer of the Ultimates, has even said that Iron Man took a lot of inspiration from Ultimate Iron Man. Besides the origin story, that is. The Amazing Spider-Man -- Besides some mixes with 616, like Gwen Stacy, is primarily references Ultimate Spider-Man. Like his personality. -- @President Pedro, Yes. I agree with you there, and I will not deny that it was a mistake. However, I just wanted to show another light to look at it.
May 12 - 11:00 PM
Thanks for seeing from my point of view; also, there's nothing wrong with that series they adapted, just should have done it better rather than overcomplicate things.
May 13 - 01:52 PM
he wasn't a pawn, but more like the second man or "side kick" rather than the mastermind.
May 11 - 09:08 PM
Honestly, Bane was a pawn, a very powerful and intimidating pawn. Talia was the mastermind and Bane just made sure Batman was out of commission to make sure her plan went well.
May 12 - 04:41 PM
Bane wasn't really a pawn, I felt he was more of a partner, so he wasn't badly done. Mandarin, on the other hand...
May 11 - 03:22 PM
Bane for the most part is a pawn. He was just there for the ride and to beat up Batman for a bit, never really contributed to Talia's plot.
May 12 - 04:43 PM
At least Bane had action...Mandarin shot one guy, that's it...ugh what a waste.
May 11 - 12:55 PM
He didn't even do that.
May 12 - 09:24 AM
Big Fat Jewish Guy
Yeah, didn't he say that was a green screen effect?
May 12 - 03:03 PM
With both it's not about action though, it's more about they were made to look like geniuses and forces of evil and were just cast aside for someone else.
May 12 - 04:44 PM
Bane wasn't really "cast aside" though. He was still a major force. He even disobeyed Talia's order to not kill Bruce. That shows how much of a "follower" he was. More of a partner in crime.
May 12 - 08:22 PM
More like a big in-audible let down.
May 13 - 05:58 AM
Well Bane went out with a pretty anti-climatic end for what the film had built him up to, having Catwoman just blow him away. On the subject of "disobeying" orders, I'd say it was more in Banes mind to make Talia happy on more time and make sure her plan went through without any further issues.
May 13 - 05:03 PM
Yes, I agree that was a bummer of an end for Bane. Could have been done better. But I still consider him the main villain. There isn't much Talia does when the twist is revealed, except drive the bomb around. The plot isn't really further complicated by the twist, unlike Mandarin in Iron Man 3. So I think the comparisons are a bit unfair.
May 14 - 04:36 PM
OMFG, dude...you don't even pay attention, the "false mandarin" even said he didn't kill the guy. Also, the real Mandarin in the movie had plenty of action. Please go watch something more believable like DK rises with a man recovering from a broken back withOUT any modern surgeries (think professor x as a real example of what would happen.) and then a stupid typical villain like bane. He was nothing clever and there was nothing canonical about him except breaking b-man's back.
May 13 - 05:56 AM
Actually, I immediately realized that Killian was the villain. Killian wasn't Mandarin, he was the comic book Killian with no connection to any version of Mandarin. Also, The Dark Knight Rises wasn't realistic, are you kidding me. The nuclear bomb that exploded off the shore would most likely cause fallout on Gotham and effect the city, without modern surgery there is no way even Batman could get back into prime shape and fight a force like Bane, the falls he took in the pit would have killed him or put him in worse shape, and on top of that the story itself has many problems with it; there is no way The Dark Knight Rises could be realistic.
May 13 - 02:40 PM