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thank you john
Jun 6 - 04:01 PM
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It's a classic. And good one. If you're comparing the two then you don't understand why I hate Jaws.
Jun 6 - 04:04 PM
Okay, we can agree on that.
But, you're right, I'm confused. How did 2001 not bore you to death given what you've stated?
Jun 6 - 04:17 PM
Because it was a stylish, brilliantly made piece of art that really makes you think about humanity, and not a mindless exercise in fake suspense?
Also the music was great.
Jun 6 - 04:38 PM
Okay, you've got some adjectives "stylish" "brilliantly made", but what s]about it was: stylish and brilliantly made?
If Jaws is, as you say, a "mindless exercise in fake suspense", what then is an example of a brainy exercise in real suspense? Seriously, trying to see where you're coming from here.
And you like classical music apparently, Richard Strauss, Johann Strauss II...but none of Williams' work?
Jun 6 - 05:04 PM
Well the camera work and special effects were groundbreaking for the time 2001: came out. The way it was put together was brilliantly original. The ideas in it were both though-provoking and intelligent in that it was almost as if Stanley Kubrick could see into the future. Everything about the movie was way before it's time. It could have come out in the 90's and still seemed groundbreaking.
When I say fake suspense, it's because of the predictability. You can look at Spielberg's movies and say from the first 20 minutes "okay this person is going to die, this person isn't, etc.". All the suspense he tries to create is completely for null because I KNEW that they were going to kill the shark and all live happily ever after because Spielberg doesn't like to go outside the apparent guidelines that Universal wants his movies to be. A good example of real suspense was Tobe Hooper's Texas Chainsaw Massacre (going with a classic here so you've probably seen it). Everything is unpredictable and seemingly random, with the characters and conflict unfolding as the suspense builds. If Spielberg had directed it, you think he would have killed the main character? (and a handicapped one at that). It's kind of a shame that he had to ruin Hooper's Poltergeist with his sentimental bullshit.
Jun 6 - 05:38 PM
There's nothing superficial about seeing a movie for it's entertainment value, especially one you that you claim set the standard for the "blockbuster". Everything you said was merely a opinion, and here's mine:
1. As with all Spielberg films, Jaws was predictable. There were no clever twists and nothing I couldn't have predicted at least 2 scenes before it happened.
2. The movie had no style. The characters were run-of-the-mill, the score...the score is fucking bad. Don't tell me it's a classic. If it was 2 notes, it would probably be much scarier. The orchestral shit that John Williams writes doesn't fit a horror movie. It just isn't creepy...it's annoying. I don't like John Williams in general...but at least most of his scores fit the tone of the movie.
3. It was extremely boring. And I don't mean because it was made in the 70's, don't give me that. I've seen plenty of films from every decade since the 30's. They knew how to pace a movie and they knew how to entertain.
Calling Jaws a piece of shit and one of the worst films ever isn't a "laughable hyperbole", it's an opinion. It's what I see when I try to watch the most pathetic horror effort from hollywood's most overrated director aside from Tim Burton. Good day.
Jun 6 - 04:03 PM
Well, no, it was the first film to surpass 100 million dollars domestically in history, thus making it the first film to be called a "blockbuster". It literally changed the entire studio system. Not that that proves it's worth to you perhaps, but it is a fact, and seems significant.
It's not just a "horror' film btw, why all these rigid and subjective genre rules?
Jun 6 - 04:14 PM
I don't believe any movie should be bound by genre rules or cliches, but for what a movie tries to accomplish, you can't deny that it will fall into at least 1 genre category. People are calling Jaws "one of the greatest horror movies of all time". Talk all you want about how E.T. is magic but horror movies are my passion, and calling Jaws one of the best is just insulting.
Also, why are you deleting your own comments and re-posting them below?
Jun 6 - 04:27 PM
I had already moved my comments to the reply box below btw, that's why they're not up here anymore
Jun 6 - 04:19 PM
"The orchestral shit that John Williams writes doesn't fit a horror movie. It just isn't creepy...it's annoying. I don't like John Williams in general...but at least most of his scores fit the tone of the movie. " That's why I mentioned the genre, but if you don't like John Williams, then you don't like John Williams...I guess. Not "liking" something is completely different then not appreciating it or acknowledging it's merit though. You don't "like" the score and themes for the original Star Wars trilogy? WOW.
Jaws isn't just considered one of the "best horror movies of all time" btw, it's widely considered one of the greatest FILMS of all time, period.
I understand if horror movies are your passion though, what are some of your favorites?
I am deleting my own comments (as opposed to someone elses'?) and re-posting them,because prior to this week I had not participated in these forums on RT, and am attempting to find ideal placement for my responses.
Jun 6 - 04:43 PM
Music is purely subjective. You can't really say that the score has ANY sort of merit, just like I can't really say that it doesn't. Music is just opinion. You probably don't like the same types of music that I do. Did you find the Jaws' score to be scary? 'Cause I sure as fuck didn't.
I've probably listed some of my favourite horror movies around these forums somewhere...I have a lot of them. The unfortunate thing is that good horror has been dying the past couple decades, and we'll only get a good, original horror movie a couple times a year...if that. It's kind of why I want to be a filmmaker.
Jun 6 - 05:11 PM
I found/find the underwater shots from the shark's perspective of people up above on the surface (very innovative for it's time) coupled with the ominous score mildly unsettling, very effective, and certainly iconic, sure. But agreed.
In total agreement about contemporary horror, fair enough. Did you like 'Let the Right One In'? (The original Swedish one)?
Jun 6 - 05:17 PM
I thought it was pretty good. Not one of my favourite recent horror movies, but it was definitely an interesting take on vampires.
Did you watch House of the Devil? Aside from the very last shot of the movie which almost killed the whole thing for me, it's a brilliantly made throwback to 70's/80's horror, and it is genuinely creepy without relying on any sort of jump scares or gore. It's just the atmosphere and how real the whole thing feels...like it could happen to anyone.
Jun 6 - 05:41 PM
The first time I watched it I couldn't finish it. I just got bored out of my mind from the lack of interesting characters or well...anything. Because of what people like you say, that it's "one of the greatest horror films of all time", which is the general consensus on the movie, I tried watching it again. The same thing happened. There was nothing mildly entertaining about any of it. And it doesn't take much to entertain me. It took about the 5th time of actually watching it to finish it, which I only did because it felt unfair to the movie to judge it without seeing the whole thing (I don't normally find it hard to finish even the most boring movies, the only other movie I can't seem to sit through is Cars). It's hard to point out specific things about it because the whole thing was so dull that after 5 attempts of watching it I can't even remember that much about it. Why do people consider a bunch of morons that you don't care about complaining about a shark that does nothing to be entertainment? I don't know, but apparently everyone else does.
Jun 6 - 02:29 PM
John Tyler McClane
The characters AREN'T morons. And the shark DOES do things. It fucks up their boat and bites the fuck out of people.
Jun 6 - 03:05 PM
That's the problem. You actually have to get through it. I never give up watching a movie, no matter how bad it is, because I think it has a chance to get better. I was kind of bored the first time I watched the movie, but near the end, I really appreciated the suspense leading up to the end. Now I really love the movie and never gets old. I'm sorry you don't like it, but I love it.
Jun 6 - 03:55 PM
I got to the ending. It was the standard good-guy-beats-bad-guy-and-that's-about-it Spielberg ending, and having seen many of his films already, the "suspense" didn't feel real.
Jun 6 - 04:22 PM
It did definitely lose suspense near the end. You did know the shark was going lose and the main character would come out victorious but, I realize that not every movie has to be perfect all the way through.
Jun 6 - 04:34 PM
"You're 12". Just kidding.
But seriously, the character interactions of Chief Brody, Quinn, and Dreyfuss' character (whom I forget the name of) are absolutely classic.
Stories of the problems Spielberg had with the mechanical shark are legendary, and he overcomes them
by...showing the shark less. Which only adds suspense. And you would rarely SEE a shark during an attack anyway. Nonetheless, the shark is given plenty of screen time, and the film's last third makes thrilling use of barrels in place of the shark! It was '75 for Christ's sake man.
The opening scene is amazing (and yes, vaguely funny now since it has been parodied so often).
The first death on the beach with the kid on the yellow raft and his blood spurting up into the air in the background is virtuosic.
The score is amazing (and no, it's not just 2 notes).
It was the first blockbuster, for what it's worth.
And it also provides quite a bit of sharp commentary on man's pride and folly in regards to commerce and/or ego being the all-powerful motivator, and then people get literally ripped apart for it.
Beach attendance was down for 3 years after the film's release.
Lastly, structurally, it's screenplay remains a blueprint for plot points and how to engineer a blockbuster film.
To each his own, but calling it a piece of shit or one of the worst film's ever is laughable hyperbole. If you think it's overrated, fine. You may be focusing on superficial elements that have more to do with when it was made though, and it's cultural, historical and artistic significance seems completely lost on you.
Jun 6 - 04:07 PM
Out of curiosity...what did you think of 2001: A Space Odyssey, Jake?
Jun 6 - 04:09 PM
Jun 6 - 12:36 PM
A shark isn't scary. Ask Chuck Norris.
Jun 6 - 12:16 PM