Weekly Ketchup: Man of Steel Sequel In the Works

Plus, new roles for Leonardo DiCaprio, Emma Watson, Tom Hanks, and Arnold Schwarzenegger.

This week's Ketchup includes movie development stories for several video game adaptations (this week was E3), and sequels for Man of Steel, Planes, The Purge, and the Terminator franchise. There's also new roles for Leonardo DiCaprio, Tom Hanks, and Emma Watson.


This Week's Top Story

WARNER BROS OFFICIALLY STARTS DEVELOPING MAN OF STEEL SEQUEL

As the early numbers continue to pour in for what is expected to be a huge weekend for Man of Steel, this column can report that Warner Bros has started development on a second movie starring the character barely called Superman in the current movie (but totally is). Zack Snyder, David S. Goyer, and Christopher Nolan will all return as the sequel's director, screenwriter, and producer, respectively. The Thursday night numbers of $21 million were higher than Iron Man 3 ($15.6 million) and The Avengers ($18.5 million), but below The Dark Knight Rises ($30.6 million). The occasional disparities between opening numbers and final grosses are obvious, however, when one considers that The Avengers ended up grossing $427 million more than The Dark Knight Rises in global box office, regardless of The Dark Knight Rises having such huge midnight numbers. Critically, Man of Steel is currently hovering in that grey zone between positive critical plurality and what RT considers "Fresh" (55% for top critics, 58% overall). Those numbers are considerably lower than the previous movie in the franchise, 2006's Superman Returns, which was more of a critical darling with 75% overall positive reviews. Breaking Last Minute News: Screenwriter David S. Goyer says that the Bruce Wayne who may exist in the Man of Steel universe (and who may someday be in Justice League) would be a different Bruce Wayne than Nolan's trilogy. That pretty much nips the bud in all of the speculation about Joseph Gordon-Levitt reprising his character in the upcoming DC Comics movies.


Fresh Developments This Week

#1 THIS WEEK IN DISNEY: PLANES ALREADY GETS A SEQUEL, AND QUICKSILVER IN THE AVENGERS 2 MIGHT BE KICK-ASS

Like most weeks, the majority of this "Disney" news actually involves Marvel, but let's start with one that isn't Marvel: Disney has already announced a release date of July 18, 2014 for Planes: Fire & Rescue, a sequel to this summer's Planes, which is itself a spinoff of Pixar's Cars franchise. These Planes movies are not actually produced by Pixar, it's worth noting. In that same announcement were two dates for unspecified future Marvel movies (May 6, 2016 and May 5, 2017), which are likely to go to Phase 3 movies after the 2015 release of Ant-Man, which starts Phase 3 off after the release earlier that year of The Avengers 2. This practice of announcing release dates for unspecified movies is a lot like how, in May, Disney announced dates for four movies each from Pixar and Disney Animation in the years 2016, 2017 and 2018. We don't really know which Marvel movies might get those two May release dates, but one of them could be Doctor Strange, widely considered a strong bet for Marvel Phase 3. Going back to The Avengers 2, we learned this week that the current top choice to play speedster Quicksilver is Aaron Taylor-Johnson, who already has been in two superhero movies as the star of Kick-Ass and its upcoming sequel. Coincidentally, Quicksilver will also be played by another young Kick-Ass actor, Evan Peters, in 20th Century Fox's X-Men: Days of Future Past. Quicksilver's sister Scarlet Witch hasn't been cast yet, but Saoirse Ronan is seen as a strong contender (considering they were looking for an actress "like Saoirse Ronan"). Finally, speaking of Ms. Ronan (sort of), there were a lot of stories this week that John C. Reilly was going to be playing Ronan the Accuser in Guardians of the Galaxy, but it turned out to be a mistake at Deadline (he will be playing the previously reported Nova leader Rhomann Dey, not Ronan the Accuser).


#2 THIS WEEK IN VIDEO GAME ADAPTATIONS: UBISOFT'S BIG PLANS, AND TOMB RAIDER GOES BUFFY

The search is still on for the one (or two) great movie adaptation that does for video games what Blade, X-Men, and Spider-Man did for superhero movies. And at the forefront of that effort is video game company Ubisoft, who made several big announcements this week in conjunction with E3. Ubisoft already has movies based on Assassin's Creed (starring Michael Fassbender and scheduled for 2015), Splinter Cell (starring Tom Hardy), and Ghost Recon in development. This week, three more titles were added to the development mix: Far Cry, Rabbids, and the upcoming Watch Dogs. The Assassin's Creed adaptation also got exciting new (old) blood this week in the form of producer Frank Marshall, who in the past has been involved with such movies as Raiders of the Lost Ark, (the upcoming) Jurassic Park IV, and the Jason Bourne movies. Likewise, Michael Bay has now come on board the Ghost Recon film at Warner Bros, marking his first project at that studio. Michael Bay is currently just producing Ghost Recon, but he may eventually direct as well. Finally, there's one big video game movie story this week that has nothing to do with Ubisoft (all those previous stories did). Marti Noxon, Joss Whedon's producing partner on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, has signed with MGM to start work on their planned reboot of Tomb Raider. Noxon has also worked on other TV shows like Glee, Mad Men, Private Practice, Grey's Anatomy, and the Buffy spin off Angel.


#3 LEONARDO DICAPRIO MAY BE POISONED, SHOT, STRANGLED, BLUDGEONED, AND DROWNED AS RASPUTIN

Grigori "The Mad Monk" Rasputin was one wacky, wacky dude. He's had a pervading presence in pop culture, including being a Hellboy villain, and being played by the 4th Doctor (Tom Baker) in the 1971 historical epic Nicholas and Alexandra. And now, Warner Bros has acquired a spec pitch script about the life of Rasputin that the studio is hoping Leonardo DiCaprio will one day star in. The pitch came from Jason Hall, who doesn't yet have any produced films to his credit, but who is something of a rising star in Hollywood after Steven Spielberg agreed to direct his screenplay American Sniper, starring Bradley Cooper. Leonardo DiCaprio is an interesting choice to play Grigori Rasputin, partly because we've never really seen him quite that "beardy" (and this is the guy who played Howard Hughes in The Aviator).


#4 EMMA WATSON TO BE CROWNED QUEEN OF THE TEARLING

Emma Watson is out doing publicity this week as the actress with the largest female role in a movie obviously dominated by an ensemble cast of six male comedians (This is the End). Watson is also obviously most famous for playing the leading female in a movie franchise otherwise most dominated by male characters, as Hermione Granger in the Harry Potter series. The movie that was announced this week might however finally see her stepping forward as a female lead in a series of films. The deal in question involves adaptations of a upcoming trilogy of fantasy novels called Queen of the Tearling, which is being referred to as a female Game of Thrones (which is a little odd considering GoT itself has a lot of strong female roles). In some regards, Queen of the Tearling is very much starting off as a Harry Potter reunion, as that franchise's producer (David Heyman) and studio (Warner Bros) are all principal participants. The first book by Erika Johansen will be published in 2014, and will be "set three centuries after an environmental catastrophe when a malevolent Red Queen holds considerable power." The trilogy was reportedly inspired by a 2007 speech by Barack Obama, but this writer can't quite remember the speech about an evil Red Queen ruling 300 years in the future. There are currently no writers or directors attached to work on Queen of the Tearling.


#5 EDDIE REDMAYNE FROM LES MISERABLES MAY PLAY STEPHEN HAWKING IN THEORY OF EVERYTHING

All of those extreme closeups in Les Miserables may have given Eddie Redmayne some crucial experience for what may be his next role. Redmayne is being sought after by Working Title to star as famed physcist Stephen Hawking in Theory of Everything, a biopic which will focus on Hawking's relationship with his "wife" (which may be Hawking's first wife, who he divorced in 1991). You can read more about the "theory of everything" here, which is not to be confused with the similar concepts of "unified field theory" or "the grand unified theory." Theory of Everything will be directed by James Marsh, best known for the documentaries Man on Wire and Project Nim.


#6 TOM HANKS HOPES FOR BETTER RESULTS THE SECOND TIME WITH CLOUD ATLAS DIRECTOR

Last year's Cloud Atlas was arguably flawed (though it is 67% Fresh on the RT Tomatometer), but the film certainly couldn't be accused of a lack of ambition. Andy and Lana Wachowski attracted the most press attention, but half the movie (the stories set in the 1936, 1973, and 2012) was actually directed by Tom Tykwer (Run Lola Run, The International). Tom Hanks, who had significant roles in two of Tykwer's segments (as a scientist and a gangster author), apparently liked working with the German director. Hanks and Tykwer are going to collaborate again on an adaptation of the Dave Eggers novel A Hologram for the King. Tom Hanks will star as a struggling American businessman who goes to Saudi Arabia for a last ditch effort to save his career by selling a hologram projection system to the new King Abdullah.

Rotten Ideas of the Week

#3 UNIVERSAL PICTURES WANTS TO URGE THE PURGE AGAIN

Horror movies are frequently made on a shoestring budget compared to other genres, which then frequently leads to them being sequelized because the box office proportions can be so wildly skewed. Solidly in that category is The Purge, which earned an opening box office weekend of $36 million from a production budget of just $3 million. And so, Universal Pictures and Blumhouse Productions have started development on a sequel to The Purge. Probably adding to the allure of franchising The Purge is the fact that the premise can be applied to different lead characters with every new movie, meaning that negotiations with actors like Ethan Hawke and Lena Headey won't be necessary for each new entry in the series. This also increases the number of ongoing horror franchises being produced by Blumhouse Productions to four, along with the Paranormal Activity, Insidious, and Sinister franchises (the first movie of which also starred Ethan Hawke). This is a Rotten Idea story based on the "Rotten" 38% Tomatometer score for The Purge.


#8 SEXAGENARIAN ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER CONFIRMED FOR THE FIFTH TERMINATOR

At the age of 65, Arnold Schwarzenegger is now old enough to fully receive Social Security benefits and, apparently, play a cyborg killing machine (presumably one that's been around for a really, really, long time). The news comes directly from the star of The Last Stand himself, as he went on to say that filming is scheduled to start in January of 2014. What is currently unknown is who will be directing the next movie after 2009's Terminator: Salvation, which is "Rotten" on the RT Tomatometer with a score of just 33%. Patrick Lussier (cowriter of Drive Angry, Dracula III: Legacy) and Laeta Kalogridis (Shutter Island; cowriter of Alexander) have both worked on the script for this fifth Terminator movie.


#1 ADAM SANDLER TO SAY HELLO GHOST, GOODBYE LAUGHTER

Two years after the release of Jack and Jill, there are still people in Hollywood who will hire Adam Sandler to star in a "comedy." The latest suc... um, diligent business partner will be producer Chris Columbus of 1492 Pictures, along with Universal Pictures. The project is called Hello Ghost, and is a remake of a South Korean supernatural comedy about a man haunted by four ghosts after attempting to kill himself (until he successfully helps each of them fulfill their dying wish). Chris Columbus, who will also direct Hello Ghost, in the past has directed such movies as I Love You Beth Cooper, Bicentennial Man, the first two Home Alone movies, and oh yeah, the first two Harry Potter movies. The adapted screenplay was written by screenwriter Karen Croner, who recently gave us the box office misfire Admission.

For more Weekly Ketchup columns by Greg Dean Schmitz, check out the WK archive, and you can contact GDS via Facebook.

Comments

Dave J

Dave J

Already, a sequel of "Man Of Steel" part two already in the works! I guess the audience really expect to see another Superman trilogy!

Jun 14 - 04:25 PM

Laura  P.

Laura Porter

Start working at home with Google! It's by-far the best job Ive had. Last Monday I got a new Alfa Romeo from bringing in $7778. I started this 9 months ago and practically straight away started making more than $83 per hour. I work through this link, www.Bling6.com

Jun 19 - 03:46 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

I knew there would be a Purge 2. The film was a crowd pleaser to the theater I was in. Everyone was like, "God damn!" When the shotgun came out. To me, the movie was meh at best.
MoS is a good film and deserves more than a 57%. I would say it should be in Iron Man 2/3 range.
I didn't read the Farcry news, so why is it fresh? I mean Farcry 3 is my favorite game of 2012, but the movie sucked. As for AC and Splinter Cell, those games weren't made for the big screen. Their plot lines are really intricate and takes more than 2 hours to tell.

Jun 14 - 05:00 PM

This comment has been removed.

James Russell

James Russell

What are you bashing him for? He did say it was "meh", if you read it.

Jun 14 - 08:33 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

Maybe you need to grow up....... oh wait, you're 45.

Jun 15 - 02:06 AM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

I was bored and nothing was in theaters, so I just watched it.

Jun 15 - 12:12 AM

Ian Milheim

Ian Milheim

You don't have to answer to that asshole.

Jun 15 - 01:07 AM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

If only you knew who you were defending...

Jun 15 - 03:44 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

You know, Mordas, I stopped doing that like a week ago.

Jun 15 - 03:49 PM

Cass Wilson-Chammartin

Cass Wilson-Chammartin

I find it kinda weird how critics give Avengers a high 90 when the whole movie is a bunch of far fetched CGI explosions and ridiculousness... and non stop tongue in cheek jibber jabber... Then when Man of Steel does something similar with the action sequences.. they bash it.

Jun 14 - 05:36 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

Everybody loved Agent Colson. That got people emotionally invested. Nothing in superman got anybody emotionally invested. OH NO I HOPE SUPER MAN CAN STOP THE *gag* world engine *ahem* so he can help perry white save..*sigh* Jenny Olsen...oh brother.... See what I mean?

But don't get me started because I loved the action in Man of Steel. This is film that alternates between hitting and missing. Still, it hit enough to get excited for a sequel.

Jun 14 - 05:51 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

*SPOILERS
So when Pa Kent and Jor El died, you felt nothing.

Jun 14 - 06:25 PM

Max M.

The Dude

Of all people to kill, Snyder kills Kevin fucking Costner. I felt something. And even if Russell Crowe did die, he came back later on so I wasn't really that sad.

Jun 14 - 09:13 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

The Dude Calls it perfectly especially considering how bad ass Jor-El was as Ghost Dad. Kevin Costner dying rather than letting his own son live up to his full potential? I felt the film was desperate to add angst with its teen demographic loves...thats what I felt.

Jun 14 - 11:25 PM

Ian Milheim

Ian Milheim

He died to save a stupid fucking dog, and could have been saved by pretty much anyone standing in that crowd. He must have had some sort of death wish, because that was clearly dumb as hell.

Jun 15 - 01:08 AM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

Okay, that was terrible writing on Goyer's part, but you didn't feel anything?

Jun 15 - 02:02 AM

Shaun D.

Steven Harris

@Bradly: I didn't really care for Coulson that much.. Yeah, he was cool and all, but all he did in the movie was to talk to some characters and quickly got stabbed by Loki. He's a Captain America Fanboy though, props to that.

Jun 15 - 04:49 AM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

Maybe "IT'S TERRIBLE WRITING GUY's ADMIT IT!!!!" is the wrong approach, after all I did love the movie. What I hated was the laziness of writing.

Kal-edl's Mom for example went through a check list of "This parting is super sad cuz I'm like his mom and stuff huh!" and the reason it isn't super sad is because not one time does she actually make a connection with her baby. Why isn't she talking to this baby she'll never get to talk to again? I personally read to all my kids WHILE THEY WERE STILL IN THE WOMB! Because that's what an actual parent does. The baby was being treated as if it was in another room. Then she goes through the "Oh this is sad huh" TWO MORE TIMES with two more devastating issue. The whole emotion of each event looked like someone told her netflix service was being interrupted. Aw man, that sucks.

Now the Pa Kent situation really pissed me off because I thought Kevin Costner emotionally Nailed Pa Kent and hey props to Henry Cavil for nailing a teen that's watching his Father die but the way it was written was *See Ian Milheim's above reaction*. He went back for a Dog!? Does David Goyer know what a Farmer does!??!!? SUPERMAN JUST WATCHED!!?? DOES DAVID GOYER KNOW KANSAS OR SUPERMAN AT ALL!? THE HECK KIND OF CRAPPY WRITING IS THIS!?

See it's the "THE HECK KIND OF CRAPPY WRITING IS THIS!?" that kept me from feeling a lot during a lot of the "dramatic scenes.

Last rant for this post. Clark lifts a bus out of the water and there are 2 exists for students to get out but every student on the bus is just content to wait and Die? WE see the back entrance AND the side Door wide open. Does Goyer think teens are just dumb? Oh for crying out loud the Bus Driver looks like he's waiting for the Bus as this is happening!

Colson was likable and Colson had charm because he was written to be. How would Goyer have written him in this movie? He would have been charmless and unlikable but a bad guy would have off the collar said "Your Charming and Likable Coulson so I'm gonna beat you up!" BAD WRITING!

Jun 15 - 06:55 AM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

I did admit it was horrible writing, but you can't act like the Avengers' script deserves an Oscar, too. I mean why would Colson engage Loki, who can teleport and do all this stuff, alone. Yeah, he had a big gun, but who even knew that it would work? It was a prototype.
Then, Thor gets hurt by a knife?
Also, how does and extraterrestrial ship, which should have like some force field around it, gets taken out that simply. The missile shouldn't have even got past the force field.
And I thought Stark said he had one minute to get out of the Shield propeller. It took atleast 5 minutes for that scene to be over.
Also, how can the Hulk say he's in control, yet the entire movie he allows the group to be cautious of him. He never told them his secret until the end. Also, if he always had control, why did he lose control when the ship blew up. Yeah, he was caught off guard, but he could re-vert back to his old self right?
Just face facts, Avengers' script was just as bad as MoS.

Jun 15 - 10:19 AM

Andrew Targaryen

Andrew Targaryen

I actually agree with Jay. The Avengers gets a free pass by fans because it's written by Joss Whedon, when in reality, there's nothing that makes it better than Man of Steel. I loved The Avengers (I gave it a 10/10), but I think Man of Steel had more to accomplish, and it did (very well too).

Jun 15 - 01:15 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

Avengers had fantastic dialogue exchanges. "I put a bullet in my mouth and the Big guy spit it out" for example. Thats quotable stuff. Nothing being quotable from Man of Steel is another problem with the script. Me and my kids can quote Avengers all day. Can you quote Man of Steel?

No, because just like in RETURNS. Henry Cavil isn't aloud to say anything! Kneel before Zod isn't in the movie. GOOD no corny dialogue. So what did Zod say that was memorable? Nothing. If I copy the Trailer "I WILL FIND HIM I WILL GET YOUR SON!" My kids aren't gonna think "Oh Dad is being Zod!" they will think "OH DAD IS SYNDRO! INCREDIBLE IS AWESOME!"

Quotable lines makes for good scripts and Man of Steel lacks these moments. Avengers had these moments every 10 minutes.

Superman also lacking a Hero moment really upset me. Hero moments are what superman is about! Murdering the bad guy when you have absolute Power isn't a hero moment, its lazy writing.

Jun 15 - 03:19 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

**Spoilers** I didn't feel anything for the deaths because a. Jor El is gonna die, everybody knows this and as Bradly said, they brought him back anyway and b. You knew Pa Kent was gonna die because they showed his grave before they showed him dying then instead of a tragic heart attack which Clark is powerless to stop they have him die in the stupidest manner possible saving a dog which Clark could have easily done without revealing his powers to the crowd, also could have saved Pa also without revealing his powers. Hell Pa could have saved himself if he'd run instead of stupidly gesticulating to Clark then closing his eyes and waiting to be wiped out.

Jun 15 - 08:50 PM

Omega728

Nathan Vang

Agent Colson did not die, see Agents of Shield tv series....

Jun 16 - 06:41 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

You ever ran from a tornado, Big Brother?... with a broken ankle? Give it a shot and let us know how it goes. We'll wait.
In the meantime, why is it stupid that Pa Kent would risk his life to save a dog? It doesn't take reputed philosopher to tell you that man can be judged by his treatment of animals. Add to that the agreed upon notion that dogs are "man's best friend", coupled with the fact that this is Pa Kent we are talking about (the moral center of the movie!) and suddenly it becomes pretty easy to believe that he would risk his life to save the dog. This, after all, is something that ordinary, less archetypically built folks do daily in real life.
It just seems like a really weird thing for people to be up in arms about.

Jun 16 - 08:16 AM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

You ever just stood there and let yourself die? I don't care how much that ankle hurts anybody without a death wish is hopping their ass to that overpass. On the dog thing it's not specifically that he died saving a dog it was the whole unnecessary aspect of it. Clark could have easily done what he did with no danger to himself and without revealing himself. The whole scene just seemed so contrived and frustratingly dumb. I also think you're thinking of another Pa Kent perhaps the Smallville and Donner versions. This is the Pa Kent who suggested maybe Clark should have let a busload of his friends die to protect his secret. In MoS Jor El was much more the moral center which was ironic since he seemed to be going more for a nurture over nature theme.

Jun 16 - 06:25 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

Ok you got me on that one. I too thought the whole "maybe" thing was weird and a little out there. But it was in the trailer, so I pretty much got over it long before seeing the film.

Jun 17 - 12:30 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

(My god when are they gonna get rid of this comment format that makes you find the beginning of the conversation instead of letting you respond to the goddamn comment??) But Big Brother, to add to the irony of your point is that the contrasting dynamic between Pa Kent and Jor el was paid off in full when Jor el finally gave Superman permission, and his blessing, to "save them all." For me that was one of the most powerful moments in a CBM, and certainly the best in a Superman film. He spends his entire life living in a household being raised by a morally grounded man with a real and certainly relatable distrust in the government, the same government that governs by fear and uses fear as one of the best sleight of hands to keep us divided and fractured as a culture. Of course people are not prepared to handle first contact with an alien race. No man wants to say "yeah, let your friends die," but what's that man's first priority as a father? His son's wellbeing, which he had every reason to believe would be immediately compromised by allowing the world to find out about his existence. (I'll go so far as to say that Clark would have become a villain had the government learned about and got their hands on him at that age. It would have been E.T. and Iron Giant all over again, but with graver consequences.) Then you have his other father who comes from the militaristic top rung of a scientifically advanced alien society whose perspective on the question is rightly in opposition.
I'd never just stand there and let myself die. But would you say that it is unheard of for a man who wears his morals on his sleeve to throw everything he believed and taught his son out the window in face of death?
Jor el set him free of the fears built into him from childhood. Pretty much, "well they know about you now. You're a man now. And they need you now. So GO! Achieve your destiny."
It was brilliant!

Jun 17 - 12:49 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

See Matanuki this is also what made it so lazy a script. He says you can save her..You Can save them all and then super man in the action sequences demonstrates he just has absolutely no "F's" To give about humans. Go watch it again and you'll see that the entire destruction of the Smallville site was all Clarks fault. This is where the movie becomes even more silly when fans say "Oh well...maybe that sears and train yard and i-hop were all empty when clark Irrationally tackled his enemies into it and brought it down...."

Also really ham fisted and cheesy as hell. After Jorel says you can save all of them and for no reason other than really bad writing, Clark decides to Jesus Cross pose out the window. This is why so many people prefer the Pa Kent of old because his Death taught Clark that he wasn't Jesus and not even he could break the bonds of death.

.....sept when he did with that whole time travel thing of course.

When Jor-El at the beginning of the movie said "How, He'll be a God to them" he very rudely set up Pa Kent as an irrational paranoid fool because Jor-El time and time again showed us he knew far better than his idiot adoptive father.

I just want everyone to know that I've been having a blast disagreeing with you all and agreeing with Big Brother and others.

Jun 18 - 07:22 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

Ok... You're having a blast.... Fantastic.
Question, have you ever been in a fight? And that's not a dis. It is a sincere question. Because there are a number of things it seems you are not considering. Even with two highly trained fighters in a small space, without the rules and the benefit of an octagon or a standard ring, bystanders are bound to get accidentally hit, crashed into, fell on, etc. Surrounding furniture will take some damage. The fight may go to the ground, and in the red zone of an inevitable adrenaline response, much of the control and training and conscious fight prowess will go out the window for both fighters despite their pedigree (because since even most professional fighters are not trained red zone life or death conflicts, it is difficult to determine how either fighter will respond once their mind goes into the red zone and the basics of fight/flight survival instincts begin to overwhelm conscious mastery of technique.
This is two professional experienced fighters in an all out fight to the death, whose training WILL break down and stuff in the surrounding environment, surely, will get damaged.
In Man of Steel, we're dealing with superhuman beings (!!), ALL of which with basically untested power, a Clark Kent with zero fight training that has a slight advantage over trained warriors only because he more used to having the powers (but not fighting with them).
All this considered, it somehow reasonable to expect him -IN HIS FIRST FIGHT!!!- to be able to minimize property damage and casualties? I'm afraid that does not make any sense at all.
This film definitely has its flaws, but its clear some thought and (at least) a passing appreciation of fight dynamics went into the construction of the fight scenes.

Jun 18 - 07:56 AM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

I actually agree with you on this. Superman clearly didn't know what the heck he was doing and he clearly isn't the inspirational Good beyond Good Icon that human being should stand behind...it's just the movie thinks that he is even though they show that he isn't. 75 years of comics and I think Superman may have killed a total of 2 people one which resulted in him hanging up his cape forever. See "What ever happened to the Man of Tomorrow" and this movie has him kill people left and right indirectly and directly...what the heck!?

I've been in a fight and your right, I had no idea what the heck I was doing and luckily for me neither did the other guy. Can I spectate on what I would do when watching an MMA match or even a boxing match, absolutely but I recognize that in an actual fight the "OMG I DONT KNOW WHAT I'M DOING AHHHH! DIVE TACKLE AHHH!" takes over, at least for me.

I just don't get why Clark didn't just up and kill Zod Earlier. This new cynical pessimistic Dower Brooding Clark never at any point established he didn't want to hurt anyone. I don't think superman should ever kill anyone, EVER! but like you said in another post this is not in any way the Silver age or Golden age superman.

Would you agree that superman then Failed miserably against Zod? Zod was "evil" and a "monster" for putting kryptonians first ABOVE ALL ELSE then forcing superman to do exactly the same. This superman even with free choice made the exact same mistakes as the puppet! WTF Man!

Jun 18 - 09:37 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

You just expressed a fundamental misunderstand of literally everything I just tried to explain to you about fighting. But whatever. You referenced another post. It was probably the one where I said that this was not Donnor's Superman. And after 35 years, it absolutely should not be. The Donnor/Reeve iteration of the character simply is not canon, and never was.
About Superman not killing. Let's take a look at that one. Since it's happened in the comic (IN THE CANON!), does this mean that you hate the comic and for some inexplicable reason went to see the film? Did you perhaps burn every copy you ever purchased of the infamous books in which Superman was forced to take a life, or just completely ignore that they exist?
Also, did we watch the same film? You mention that there was no scene where Superman didn't show that he didn't want to harm people. What about when he backed down from the punk in the bar?! And by the way, speaking of which, this is not a Superman worth looking up to?? Do you prefer then the thematic implications of Donnor's Superman 2, which showcased not one but two pivotal scenes where Superman bullies defenseless people?!?! He kills a depowered Zod, and beats up an out of shape trucker, and BOTH scenes are played for laughs. You're cool with, but have a problem with him snapping the neck of a terrorist thats trying to roast a small family alive?!

Jun 18 - 11:03 AM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

Hey I liked that he didn't murder that trucker for being a jerk to him. Then he wrecked his truck. What a prick. That just doesn't hurt that trucker. What ever he was hauling won't make its destination and if that trucker has a family they now have an unemployed Father...Whoops! Sorry Snyder's Superman film, I forgot I'm not suppose to think about consequence of absolute power.

I'm fine with this superman killing because we see that this superman is an immature bully early on. He steals cloths, he has no regard for human life in the epic fight scenes and given a choice between being clever and being a killer he's gonna choose to be a killer. Angst is awesome, I get it. It's the world we all currently live in.

That's fine, I don't hate this movie I just don't understand why i'm suppose to feel an immature poorly written superman is a more "real" one.

TO say that Superman, The man that can do anything, had no choice but to kill zod in that Man of steel head lock sonic boom way shows that you have no imagination but thats oaky, neither did this film. I'm okay with a cynical depressed brooding franchise. I loved The Dark Knight Trilogy.

I liked the movie, I would like to see a sequel and if Snyder has a directors cut I'd like to see that too. I don't care that the critics hate this movie, I can understand why sure but I don't care. I would love to see Superman's first flight from the Man of Steel again on Blu Ray! Let's you and I who are clearly fans of Big Action films end this by saying That first flight sequence was absolutely Incredible and I'll bet nothing tops it this summer!

Jun 18 - 11:20 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

You can save your juvenile assumptions about me, Bradly. It's not a good look. Anyone with a pinky's worth of fight knowledge and experience knows that hindsight 20/20, while nice and tidy, doesn't always apply in the heat of the moment. Especially when your skill and prowess are untested. It is entirely realistic that he would, in that moment, see no other option than to snap Zod's neck. Also, let's by forget (or conveniently overlook) that Zod too had the same Godlike power. And you know the funny thing about imagination is you don't need a whole lot of it to imagine you tap dancing around the hypocrisy of calling this Superman a "bully" and ignoring the points just made about the Donnor/Reeve sequel.

Jun 18 - 12:02 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

and seriously, by the way, FUCK THAT TRUCKER! He deserved to have his truck destroyed. And if he was a family man, maybe he shouldn't be in a bar disrespecting women!

Jun 18 - 12:07 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

Also Bradly, there is indeed another thing that bothers me about your complaint. And you opened the door for it since you brought up imagination. Tell me this, in terms of story structure, if Superman is perfect at the outset, flawless in his decision making and tapered at every seem from the very beginning, ...where do we go from there? How, pray tell, do we root for someone and hail them as am exemplary role model worth looking up to, if they've always been perfect and never themselves had to work or sacrifice or fail to achieve that higher standard? You wanna talk about cynicism, about pessimism? That, sir, is quite pessimistic; the assumption that hallowed greatness is something that comes with no cost or struggle at all.
Is it not enough that he virtually invisible and blessed with godlike power? He gets to start out perfect in mind and heart too?
How about we watch him grow in the sequel and become more worthy of praise as a top shelf archetype by bring shown having to deal with the consequences of battle, the implications (even when forced) of taking life. How about his first assignment as a reporter winds up being a story on the after-math of the first film's destruction? I'd find that compelling as hell! How about you?

Jun 18 - 01:04 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

**Invincible. Virtually invincible, I mean. (loving the edit features, RT)

Jun 18 - 01:08 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

I think we are just two very different viewers. You seem to be in the mind set of "That Trucker deserved it, That train yard deserved it, General Zod deserved it." Okay we have established that you have no sympathy for bullies big or small...or train yards. Thats cool Thats cool, it's all good, a cynical brooding superman as we just saw would feel the same way.

See I'm of the ilk where "Wasn't that a bit excessive?" is my general attitude. I mean your trying to hide a secret Clark why did you do that to the Truck? You don't even get cold why would you steal that Family's cloths? Never Help people!? Isn't that a little excessive to hide a secret!? Why is the Kryptons greatest scientist kicking the ass of kryptons greatest warrior?

I've liked films critics have hated before. Like Wicker Park or Vanilla Sky or just recently The Great Gatsby. Wicker Park has a 23% Man! I'm not mad about it though. I mean sure next to nobody has seen it but still. 23% seems very harsh to me.

I thought my above posts were more in agreement with your fighting assessment. I am sorry about the "You have no imagination" comment. I really don't like to fight, Love to argue but not fight.

I'm not lying when I say I really did like this movie just didn't think it was the greatest super hero movie ever. I feel like the only way are back in fourth is gonna end if I stop posting or say "My Bad, it's the greatest super hero movie ever and those critics are apart of a disney smear campaign"

Jun 18 - 01:18 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

i don't think it's the best superhero movie either. Hell Superman is not even one of my favorites. But I also don't think Supes is bully for killing Zod. If that's true then he'll always been a bully, on the page and on film (which actually opens up a whole other can of worms because in the comic we've seen Superman and even Batman portrayed as much MUCH worse than mere bullies! Lol)
Way I see it, we're all just discussing a shared passion and value for movies and comics. And there's never anything wrong with that.
But some folks cross the line, man. Did you read that one comment about how Superman 4: The Quest For Peace was somehow better than Man of Steel?!? Jesus, we should call the goddamn police on the guy! ;)

Jun 18 - 02:29 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

Here Here, I'm glad we can both recognize that we have a shared passion and this film is way better then Quest for Peace. I hate being conflicted like this about a film I like but like I said earlier I love to argue. Sorry if playing Devil's advocate got way out of hand. Can't wait for this Blu-ray and stoked for the sequel!

Jun 18 - 02:55 PM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

Yeah we were all teared up when Agent Colson died. So much that I went to get some nachos.

Jun 14 - 08:16 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

I laughed.

Jun 15 - 02:04 AM

Atul Aditya

Atul Aditya

I was like so this is why they introduced Maria otherwise there was no use of her!!

Jun 15 - 02:50 AM

Andrew Targaryen

Andrew Targaryen

Very true.

Jun 15 - 01:15 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

and you two are sterling examples of emotional balance. Val, you probably got nacho's after ol' yeller died and punched a kid on the way out of the theater and Jay, the last time you cried was when you were whacking off to Jack and Jill and squirted in your own eye.

Jun 15 - 08:55 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

You must still be in denial of Colson's death, huh? Its okay. You can always skip the scene and pretend he ran away. You must be heartbroken that the dude died by pulling off one of the dumbest moves in history.

Jun 15 - 10:43 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Yeah, why would an agent of a organization designed to deal with supes, not just run away from a supernatural threat when he was armed with a gun designed to take down a God. Also, Loki doesn't teleport, he projects illusions as the trickster God. If falling victim to a trick by the Norse God of deception qualifies as dumb there are a lot of dumb people in movies. Why commit crimes in Victorian London when you know Sherlock Holmes is just going to solve them?

Jun 16 - 12:37 AM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

Its dumb that he thinks he can take on a God...... alone.

Jun 16 - 12:45 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Yep, he should have just let his friends and people he admires die like Snyders Superman would have.

Jun 16 - 06:26 PM

Alfred Borden

Alfred Borden

When Colson died in Avengers (aka) the Ironman show- I literally felt nothing. All I did was wait for the climactic battle which deliverd. I didnt go in it expecting anything else & I didnt get anything else.

Jun 15 - 05:36 AM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Cool all the emotionally damaged and trollish RT members are getting together. Damaged trolls of the world unite!!!!

Jun 15 - 08:56 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

We agree on that one, Big Brother. On with the Avengers bashing! (walking away mumbling under my breath and shaking my head, "tourists..")

Jun 16 - 08:20 AM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

You know it's also kind of funny to me Big Brother. I thought people would flood in saying "Man of Steel is no Dark Knight" "YOU TAKE THAT BACK YOU SO!" "YOUR MOM IS NO DARK KNIGHT!!!" But it seems that it's Avengers vs Man of Steel...Didn't see that coming. I wonder if anyone will even bother brining up Man of Steel when Avengers 2 comes out? Will Man of Steel have staying Power like the Avengers apparently has?

Jun 16 - 04:17 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Never underestimate peoples desire to turn anything into a Marvel v DC debate.

Jun 16 - 06:28 PM

Dave J

Dave J

Users are comparing the two films because while "The Dark Knight" series has already ended that theirs already an announcement regarding the next "Man Of Steel" and "The Avengers" movies, except that at the end "The Avengers" is going to come out on top in terms of box office overall take!

Jun 17 - 03:22 PM

John Stovall

John Stovall

I guess I'm really easy to engaged emotionally. On wit no I'm not for most films never mind. Guess they just failed with folks to need characters to be built up over several films to appreciate them.

Jun 16 - 08:55 AM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

Its cause Man of Steel was directed by Zack Snyder. The critics hated him for Sucker Punch and the owl movie (sorta).
Joss Whedon came out with Cabin in the Woods and it got a 91% for its "original" story. I'm telling you if they took off Zack Snyder's name even though he still directed it and put Joss Whedon, it woulda had a 80-90%. Critics are bandwaggoners if you don't notice.
Schomes Know, Chris Stuckmann, Jeremy Jahns, Behind the Trailers, IGN, and even Christie Lemire (the woman who got death threats over TDKR) all gave this movie positive reviews. And I'm not saying RT is personally doing this, but the critics are.

Jun 14 - 06:31 PM

Jonathan Edward O.

Jon Owens

No.... It's not because the critics are "bandwagoning" it's because the script for MoS was bad.... The character development sucked... And the story was meh.... The only thing great about the film was the direction from Snyder and the action scenes... stop being paranoid.. You may not have disliked the movie but just because you didn't doesn't mean all the critics have a conspiracy against Snyder....

Jun 14 - 07:24 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

They complain of "overuse of CGI" in a Superman film? Okay, so lets blow up half of New York just to shoot this movie because critics wanted real deal. Also, Avengers' story was generic and did the same thing and got a 94%? Don't give me the whole "character development in the other films" thing because if someone who hadn't seen Iron Man 1 & 2,or Thor, or Cpt. America (notice I said or) they wouldn't understand the character. Plus, Hulk wasn't fleshed out in a single way, yet he was regarded as the best part of the film. Also, explain how YouTube critics who get money from ads and their jobs, all gave this film positive ratings.

Jun 14 - 08:07 PM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

Yeah I don't get the beef with the CGI, I mean the shit looked awesome right?

Jun 14 - 08:17 PM

Alan Smithee

Alan Smithee

I'm not here to defend MoS because I've not seen it yet. Obviously David Goyer doesn't have a single critical hit as the sole screenwriter, so it doesn't surprise me that the script is being panned. However, Jay has a perfectly valid point. Marvel's Cinematic Universe does get a free pass from most of the critics. In fact, there's not a single Marvel flick with what could even remotely be consider strong character development.

The perfect example of this bias comes from this top critic:
http://www.timeout.com/us/film/the-avengers
http://www.timeout.com/us/film/man-of-steel-movie-review

He reaches reeeal deep to try and place some hidden symbolism in the final battle of The Avengers, which was practically the entire third act and literally looks like it was ripped straight out of Transformers Dark of the Moon. Then he turns around and bashes Man of Steel's "Transformers-grade skyscraper snapping and bloodless catastrophe." Now that's what I call a double standard.

Jun 14 - 10:58 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

I'm sorry guy's but the story of Man of Steel (I film I liked) was terrible. NO CLARK IF THE GOVERNMENT FINDS OUT YOUR AN ALIEN YOU WILL NEVER BE ACCEPTED! then the scene Comes where they find out and all Pa Kents Fears come to life...Nothing! It didn't matter at all that the Government found out about him...Turns out Pa Kent was a paranoid loon...Thats one example of Terrible writing fellas.

I can just see a terrified Pa Kent pacing back and fourth outside of a movie Theater. "NO Martha, NO! If Clark ever found out that Nemo's Mom Died the Ramifications could be Terrible!" Paranoid Helicopter parent.

Jun 14 - 11:28 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

@Bradley I thought that the government used SM. They knew that Zod could destroy Earth and he was their only hope. When he fought for Earth, he then gained their trust.

Jun 15 - 12:17 AM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

The complaint about the overuse of CGI is the same as in Transformers where you have people fighting who you can't see what's happening. How many times in MoS did they use the old superspeed being coming from out of nowhere to tackle someone trick? I remember at least 6 times. This was Superman, not The Flash.

Jun 15 - 09:00 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

But thats Superman's power. So he can't use his power in a fight. Plus, the Avengers scene was a blur. All I saw was explosion, slow down for corny joke, and explosion. Quit riding Marvel's dick Big Sister. I don't wanna tell mom.

Jun 15 - 10:46 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

No you moron, but he and every other Kryptonian doesn't need to use the same trick over and over bludgeoning you over the head with it. So you didn't see Captain America engaged in hand to hand combat at regular speed in Avengers, you didn't see Hawkeye using his archery, you didn't see Thor call down the lightning and use Mjolnir. How exactly did explosions impede your view of the action in Avengers? Do grits magically cook at a different speed on your stove than anywhere else in the universe?

Jun 16 - 12:42 AM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Also genius, I love Nolan's Dark Knight movies, the original Superman films and Superman Returns and V for Vendetta so I'm not anti-DC, I'm anti-lazy movie making.

Jun 16 - 12:43 AM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

I'm sorry. Explosions around them dumbass. Even Haweye's arrow exploded. Capt. used a sheild against an explosion. Plus, the action wasn't always repetitve in MoS. Did you not see Superman fighting those two aliens in the first fight? They were disabling him from using his fliyng powers. Maybe if the movie scored a 89% you would be like "this is amazing!" Let me restate, Quit riding the Tomatometer's dick.

Jun 16 - 12:50 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Some of us are able to keep our eyes off the shiny object. No where in Avengers did an explosion block off the action. Also if you had a reading comprehension level above that of a third grader you'd realize nowhere did I say the action was always repetitive, when you have a movie that's 75% action sequences you're going to have to do a few different things. The overuse of super speed was painfully overdone to me, specifically the superspeed from off camera into the tackle leaving a character skimming across the concrete which was done at least 6 times. Maybe if the movie was good enough to score an 89% I'd say that, sadly this movie wasn't. It was a good actioner with a hamfisted script and lackluster story.

Jun 16 - 06:36 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

Bradley, I'm not sure why Pa Kent's fears are stupid. On the one hand, his concerns that the government will have an unpredictable (and likely contentious)reaction to discovering Clark's origin and powers are entirely reasonable. He is literally a redefinition of the term Illegal Alien for crying out loud! This is not paranoia. This is something pretty much relegated to common sense not long after one is old enough to string three sentences together. On the other hand, Jonathan Kent has always, in every iteration of the character both in the comics and movies, been an advocate of Clark hiding his powers from the government and the world at large, at least until he was old enough and ready to embrace who he himself is without the potential threat of being ostracized and quarantined. So is your problem with the movie, or with the mythology itself?

Jun 18 - 06:54 AM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

The film shows why Pa Kent was irrational when he gives him self up to the Govt and what does the govt do to poor Clark!? Absolutely nothing. Clark has to alow them to think they are in control. Pa Kent's fear of the Government would be like if you had a son worrying about a group of ants entering your home and carrying your son away. Nothing proves this more than the end when superman destroys "a million dollar satelite!" and all the official can do is be mad about it and Clark knows this.

Jun 18 - 07:26 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

You know last I checked Bradly, Jonathan Kent is not a member of the Cobra Kai. So why would he ever think in terms of imposed power hierarchies? Why would he think, "Well Clark is a god so screw the government if they don't like it. He can squash them like ants."

Jun 18 - 08:03 AM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

Pa Kent was a tin foil hat wearing fox news fearing pessimistic hopeless jerk. Ghost Dad owns Human dad in this new film franchise.

Jun 18 - 09:40 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

You're rambling, bro. There's no part of your diatribe against Jonathan Kent that makes sense. At least BB was all on his case about the "Let a bus full of your friends die" thing. At least that one has traction. It's paper thin however, since in the scene itself Jonathan showed he was conflicted in his answer, but yeah..

Jun 18 - 11:13 AM

bigbrother

Bigbrother .

Mat, I'm still with Bradly on this one, you don't have to be Machiavelli to understand invulnerability. He lives with this kid day in and day out, he pretty much knows what he can do. Seriously? What did he think was gonna happen? That's why I like previous incarnations of Ma and Pa Kent who realized exactly how destructive Clark could be if he went wrong, not filled his head full of paranoia and doubt. To paraphrase The Dark Knight this may be the Superman we have, but it's not the one we deserve. Also to a point you made in another forum, I don't think MoS is Spiderman 3, that was just a bad movie. MoS however is flawed in some very fundamental ways and they've got a ton of work to do to make the sequel great. It's good in a turn off your brain and watch the robots fight kind of way and there's nothing wrong with that, I just disagree that it's anywhere approaching a "great" movie.

Jun 18 - 05:53 PM

Max M.

The Dude

I heard the same thing happened with Pain & Gain. It was only rumor, but I heard that Pain & Gain was pretty good, and the only reason why some critics took a giant shit on it was because it was by Michael Bay. If the movie stayed exactly the same, but if a famous director like Quentin Tarantino or Guy Ritchie's name was attached to it instead of Michael Bay, the movie would've at least reached the 70's mark.

Jun 14 - 09:17 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

I thought Pain and Gain was an entertaining film. I mean it was sorta fun. Its jokes were hit and miss though. However, I really enjoyed it.

Jun 15 - 01:59 AM

Atul Aditya

Atul Aditya

C'mon those jokes were most of the times miss!

Jun 15 - 02:52 AM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

I laughed at the Rock a lot. 80% of his jokes hit. Everyone else............ not so much.

Jun 15 - 10:09 AM

Wilhelm

Wil B.

One reason I think critics are being so harsh towards Man of Steel is the same reason they weren't glowing with their reviews for Amazing Spider-Man: They had already seen the characters origin done before in a great movie. The fact that they are remaking movies that were so well received and successful probably is what makes critics raise their standards so high.

Jun 15 - 02:21 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

I don't understand some fanboys. As if it is impossible to like a DC film without bashing Marvel, and vice versa. Seriously, if the action in Avengers was too hard to follow then someone desperately needs to get their eyes checked. On the flipside, bashing MOS and holding up Avengers as if it is somehow a far superior example of movie perfection is equally ridiculous.

Jun 16 - 08:25 AM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Not movie perfection, just better handling of dialog and story. To me Avengers was just a much more well rounded movie. As was Batman Begins and TDK. None of those movie's is an Apocalypse Now or Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, but they're in the same genre so it's natural to make that easier comparison.

Jun 16 - 06:40 PM

Roger Keen

Roger Keen

My biggest problem is I went into Man of Steel expecting the Batman Begins of Superman, I didn't get that its seemed to lack the overall development of Clark into Superman at least to me. Kinda like if they would have just killed Bruce's parents and next scene he's Batman...needed that build from Clark to Superman, not just the little flashbacks and scenes of random heroism... and the way the killed Costner off was absolutely retarded..

Jun 17 - 09:52 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

What's retarded, Roger, is I just had to hit the Reply button on my own damn comment to say this to you. lol. @Big Brother. You know what bothers me? If you remember, I used to be quite vocal in my contempt for the Superman mythology and character. And here I am today not only defending a Superman movie, but holding it up in high regard. The fact that folks who didn't like it are making it out to be like the Spiderman 3 of 2013 is making me wanna throw this chair I'm sitting on. lol.
I loved the first two Donnor films. Still do. But holy shit, talk about a treasure trove of flaws!!! Those films are great for nostalgia, time capsule relics of a bygone era. But THIS, this is SUPERMAN!

Jun 17 - 12:57 PM

bigbrother

Bigbrother .

He may be your Superman, he's not mine. I don't consider dumbing down a character to be an improvement on him. They took the path of least resistance with this incarnation. Superman is and always has been an icon to strive for, not in MoS unless you want the lesson for your kids to be get supercharged by the sun and they can do what they want.

Jun 18 - 05:57 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

lol He's not "my" Superman. That reminds me of that "my" team shit people say. He's simply Superman for this generation, and a compelling one to boot. He's what Routh wasnt. He didnt throw around his only weakness when the plot called for it. He wasnt a stalking deadbeat dad...
If this is somehow dumbed down from the Donnor films in your view, I recommend watching them again, bro.

Jun 18 - 07:09 PM

bigbrother

Bigbrother .

Not talking about the Donner versions which were campy, but were loyal to the nature of the character and I think it's crazy at this point to be claiming he's the Superman for this generation. By dumbing down I mean they took every element that has been Superman for 80 years and instead of looking for interesting ways to adapt them into an compelling character just said, he kills people now, he has no conflict with his kryptonian and human heritage, he doesn't take the higher ground but just mopes around and bashes whatever gets in his way. He's an angry teenager in this film, not Superman. Instead of believing a man can fly all I believe is a man can frown. The only thing MoS had for me over the Superman animated series and JLA cartoon was blinding CGI special effects which were dazzling.

Jun 18 - 08:42 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

Lol "a man can frown". Good one. I agree they have a lot of work to do to make the sequel work and to further justify the decisions made in their set up. I don't think it was a great film, but I do like the set up. I just think you guys are being a little too hard on this film, and woefully oversimplifying.

Jun 19 - 02:18 AM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

You're probably right, not sure how we got here. I actually enjoyed the movie enough that I'd call it a 60% but somehow in the course of discussing it I became the guy who hates Superman and ended up blasting the movies flaws into the ground.

Jun 19 - 03:10 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

Man you know what's funny about that?! I'm supposed to be the guy who hates Superman and suddenly I've become the guy defending him on both here AND Screenrant. Where, by the way, it's worse. That's where commenters are STILL complaining about the suit. lol. I'm interested in what you and Bradly think about it when it comes out on dvd and you get those multiple viewings to pick it apart more. Myself as well. You might remember that I usually need those closed captions to get the full experience of any movie due to the unfortunate though inescapable hearing issue I disclosed back when we used to talk on here more frequently. All three Nolan Batman films were immensely better for me when I could appreciate the dialogue more. And, conversely, all three Transformers films were quite worse. lol. I didn't even watch Prometheus until it came out on dvd. And I'm glad I did because it was dialogue heavy and without those precious captions I would have been completely lost. Jesus! Imagine watching Blade Runner without being able to appreciate the thematic payoff of the Tears in the Rain speech?!
I'm looking forward to the sequel to this (because smart money says they'll address all our issues with MOS), but I'm much more looking forward to the dvd so I can get an even deeper experience.

Jun 19 - 06:54 AM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

So that's why you liked Superman, for all my complaints and issues with it, not being able to hear it wasn't one of them :P

Jun 19 - 03:58 PM

Dave J

Dave J

Don't be silly Bigbrother, I think what he's saying is that he wanted to see it with the close captioning on was so that he could have a better grasp at its dialogue for this function is not always used for the hearing impaired!

And sometimes when people are watching films on the big screen, that the dialogue is too hard to make out since the sound effects are sometimes louder than the characters who are talking! I myself don't normally see drama films in theatres except the odd one(did see The Place Beyond The Pines on the big screen though) solely because of that reason, and for the possibility of missing vital scenes because of going up to get refills and so forth! And one of my friends missed the final act of Casino Royale because he had to use the washroom and I ended up explaining to him what happened, pointing out that the theatre doesn't stop for anyone regardless of what the reasons are! The close captioning function is not only for the hearing impaired but also so that that when the characters are speaking in 'whispers' or 'softly' and so forth that we can get abetter sense what they're saying since the dialogue in films has radically changed since the 1930's , and for confirmation regarding slangs not often used in peoples vocabulary since they're hundreds of spoken words not used here but are used in other English speaking countries or other countries that also use the English language for instance Gwilo(pronounced Gwee-low) is a term given by the people of Hong Hong to Chinese people who can only speak better English than Chinese, or was that also a term used for English speaking people!

Jun 19 - 08:08 PM

Fred Brooks

Fred Brooks

Calm down there, it's just film reviews. You know that saying, everyone with an opinion including film critics have a you know what. I saw "MOS" and thought it was pretty good. And there was no blur in any action scenes in "The Avengers", just like "MO" all the action scenes we're clear as day to me, but than again I have pretty good eye sight so what can say, lol.

Jun 19 - 12:44 AM

Fred Brooks

Fred Brooks

"The Avengers" scored in the 90's on RT because it was a flat out entertaining film that was also a great film. It's everything a COMIC BOOK FILM should be, and it wasn't ashamed to be so. I saw "MOS" as well and enjoyed it, a good film but not quite a great one to me.

Jun 19 - 12:29 AM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

Everybody loved Agent Colson. That got people emotionally invested. Nothing in superman got anybody emotionally invested. OH NO I HOPE SUPER MAN CAN STOP THE *gag* world engine *ahem* so he can help perry white save..*sigh* Jenny Olsen...oh brother.... See what I mean?

But don't get me started because I loved the action in Man of Steel. This is film that alternates between hitting and missing. Still, it hit enough to get excited for a sequel.

Jun 14 - 05:51 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

*SPOILERS
So when Pa Kent and Jor El died, you felt nothing.

Jun 14 - 06:25 PM

Max M.

The Dude

Of all people to kill, Snyder kills Kevin fucking Costner. I felt something. And even if Russell Crowe did die, he came back later on so I wasn't really that sad.

Jun 14 - 09:13 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

The Dude Calls it perfectly especially considering how bad ass Jor-El was as Ghost Dad. Kevin Costner dying rather than letting his own son live up to his full potential? I felt the film was desperate to add angst with its teen demographic loves...thats what I felt.

Jun 14 - 11:25 PM

Ian Milheim

Ian Milheim

He died to save a stupid fucking dog, and could have been saved by pretty much anyone standing in that crowd. He must have had some sort of death wish, because that was clearly dumb as hell.

Jun 15 - 01:08 AM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

Okay, that was terrible writing on Goyer's part, but you didn't feel anything?

Jun 15 - 02:02 AM

Shaun D.

Steven Harris

@Bradly: I didn't really care for Coulson that much.. Yeah, he was cool and all, but all he did in the movie was to talk to some characters and quickly got stabbed by Loki. He's a Captain America Fanboy though, props to that.

Jun 15 - 04:49 AM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

Maybe "IT'S TERRIBLE WRITING GUY's ADMIT IT!!!!" is the wrong approach, after all I did love the movie. What I hated was the laziness of writing.

Kal-edl's Mom for example went through a check list of "This parting is super sad cuz I'm like his mom and stuff huh!" and the reason it isn't super sad is because not one time does she actually make a connection with her baby. Why isn't she talking to this baby she'll never get to talk to again? I personally read to all my kids WHILE THEY WERE STILL IN THE WOMB! Because that's what an actual parent does. The baby was being treated as if it was in another room. Then she goes through the "Oh this is sad huh" TWO MORE TIMES with two more devastating issue. The whole emotion of each event looked like someone told her netflix service was being interrupted. Aw man, that sucks.

Now the Pa Kent situation really pissed me off because I thought Kevin Costner emotionally Nailed Pa Kent and hey props to Henry Cavil for nailing a teen that's watching his Father die but the way it was written was *See Ian Milheim's above reaction*. He went back for a Dog!? Does David Goyer know what a Farmer does!??!!? SUPERMAN JUST WATCHED!!?? DOES DAVID GOYER KNOW KANSAS OR SUPERMAN AT ALL!? THE HECK KIND OF CRAPPY WRITING IS THIS!?

See it's the "THE HECK KIND OF CRAPPY WRITING IS THIS!?" that kept me from feeling a lot during a lot of the "dramatic scenes.

Last rant for this post. Clark lifts a bus out of the water and there are 2 exists for students to get out but every student on the bus is just content to wait and Die? WE see the back entrance AND the side Door wide open. Does Goyer think teens are just dumb? Oh for crying out loud the Bus Driver looks like he's waiting for the Bus as this is happening!

Colson was likable and Colson had charm because he was written to be. How would Goyer have written him in this movie? He would have been charmless and unlikable but a bad guy would have off the collar said "Your Charming and Likable Coulson so I'm gonna beat you up!" BAD WRITING!

Jun 15 - 06:55 AM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

I did admit it was horrible writing, but you can't act like the Avengers' script deserves an Oscar, too. I mean why would Colson engage Loki, who can teleport and do all this stuff, alone. Yeah, he had a big gun, but who even knew that it would work? It was a prototype.
Then, Thor gets hurt by a knife?
Also, how does and extraterrestrial ship, which should have like some force field around it, gets taken out that simply. The missile shouldn't have even got past the force field.
And I thought Stark said he had one minute to get out of the Shield propeller. It took atleast 5 minutes for that scene to be over.
Also, how can the Hulk say he's in control, yet the entire movie he allows the group to be cautious of him. He never told them his secret until the end. Also, if he always had control, why did he lose control when the ship blew up. Yeah, he was caught off guard, but he could re-vert back to his old self right?
Just face facts, Avengers' script was just as bad as MoS.

Jun 15 - 10:19 AM

Andrew Targaryen

Andrew Targaryen

I actually agree with Jay. The Avengers gets a free pass by fans because it's written by Joss Whedon, when in reality, there's nothing that makes it better than Man of Steel. I loved The Avengers (I gave it a 10/10), but I think Man of Steel had more to accomplish, and it did (very well too).

Jun 15 - 01:15 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

Avengers had fantastic dialogue exchanges. "I put a bullet in my mouth and the Big guy spit it out" for example. Thats quotable stuff. Nothing being quotable from Man of Steel is another problem with the script. Me and my kids can quote Avengers all day. Can you quote Man of Steel?

No, because just like in RETURNS. Henry Cavil isn't aloud to say anything! Kneel before Zod isn't in the movie. GOOD no corny dialogue. So what did Zod say that was memorable? Nothing. If I copy the Trailer "I WILL FIND HIM I WILL GET YOUR SON!" My kids aren't gonna think "Oh Dad is being Zod!" they will think "OH DAD IS SYNDRO! INCREDIBLE IS AWESOME!"

Quotable lines makes for good scripts and Man of Steel lacks these moments. Avengers had these moments every 10 minutes.

Superman also lacking a Hero moment really upset me. Hero moments are what superman is about! Murdering the bad guy when you have absolute Power isn't a hero moment, its lazy writing.

Jun 15 - 03:19 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

**Spoilers** I didn't feel anything for the deaths because a. Jor El is gonna die, everybody knows this and as Bradly said, they brought him back anyway and b. You knew Pa Kent was gonna die because they showed his grave before they showed him dying then instead of a tragic heart attack which Clark is powerless to stop they have him die in the stupidest manner possible saving a dog which Clark could have easily done without revealing his powers to the crowd, also could have saved Pa also without revealing his powers. Hell Pa could have saved himself if he'd run instead of stupidly gesticulating to Clark then closing his eyes and waiting to be wiped out.

Jun 15 - 08:50 PM

Omega728

Nathan Vang

Agent Colson did not die, see Agents of Shield tv series....

Jun 16 - 06:41 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

You ever ran from a tornado, Big Brother?... with a broken ankle? Give it a shot and let us know how it goes. We'll wait.
In the meantime, why is it stupid that Pa Kent would risk his life to save a dog? It doesn't take reputed philosopher to tell you that man can be judged by his treatment of animals. Add to that the agreed upon notion that dogs are "man's best friend", coupled with the fact that this is Pa Kent we are talking about (the moral center of the movie!) and suddenly it becomes pretty easy to believe that he would risk his life to save the dog. This, after all, is something that ordinary, less archetypically built folks do daily in real life.
It just seems like a really weird thing for people to be up in arms about.

Jun 16 - 08:16 AM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

You ever just stood there and let yourself die? I don't care how much that ankle hurts anybody without a death wish is hopping their ass to that overpass. On the dog thing it's not specifically that he died saving a dog it was the whole unnecessary aspect of it. Clark could have easily done what he did with no danger to himself and without revealing himself. The whole scene just seemed so contrived and frustratingly dumb. I also think you're thinking of another Pa Kent perhaps the Smallville and Donner versions. This is the Pa Kent who suggested maybe Clark should have let a busload of his friends die to protect his secret. In MoS Jor El was much more the moral center which was ironic since he seemed to be going more for a nurture over nature theme.

Jun 16 - 06:25 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

Ok you got me on that one. I too thought the whole "maybe" thing was weird and a little out there. But it was in the trailer, so I pretty much got over it long before seeing the film.

Jun 17 - 12:30 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

(My god when are they gonna get rid of this comment format that makes you find the beginning of the conversation instead of letting you respond to the goddamn comment??) But Big Brother, to add to the irony of your point is that the contrasting dynamic between Pa Kent and Jor el was paid off in full when Jor el finally gave Superman permission, and his blessing, to "save them all." For me that was one of the most powerful moments in a CBM, and certainly the best in a Superman film. He spends his entire life living in a household being raised by a morally grounded man with a real and certainly relatable distrust in the government, the same government that governs by fear and uses fear as one of the best sleight of hands to keep us divided and fractured as a culture. Of course people are not prepared to handle first contact with an alien race. No man wants to say "yeah, let your friends die," but what's that man's first priority as a father? His son's wellbeing, which he had every reason to believe would be immediately compromised by allowing the world to find out about his existence. (I'll go so far as to say that Clark would have become a villain had the government learned about and got their hands on him at that age. It would have been E.T. and Iron Giant all over again, but with graver consequences.) Then you have his other father who comes from the militaristic top rung of a scientifically advanced alien society whose perspective on the question is rightly in opposition.
I'd never just stand there and let myself die. But would you say that it is unheard of for a man who wears his morals on his sleeve to throw everything he believed and taught his son out the window in face of death?
Jor el set him free of the fears built into him from childhood. Pretty much, "well they know about you now. You're a man now. And they need you now. So GO! Achieve your destiny."
It was brilliant!

Jun 17 - 12:49 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

See Matanuki this is also what made it so lazy a script. He says you can save her..You Can save them all and then super man in the action sequences demonstrates he just has absolutely no "F's" To give about humans. Go watch it again and you'll see that the entire destruction of the Smallville site was all Clarks fault. This is where the movie becomes even more silly when fans say "Oh well...maybe that sears and train yard and i-hop were all empty when clark Irrationally tackled his enemies into it and brought it down...."

Also really ham fisted and cheesy as hell. After Jorel says you can save all of them and for no reason other than really bad writing, Clark decides to Jesus Cross pose out the window. This is why so many people prefer the Pa Kent of old because his Death taught Clark that he wasn't Jesus and not even he could break the bonds of death.

.....sept when he did with that whole time travel thing of course.

When Jor-El at the beginning of the movie said "How, He'll be a God to them" he very rudely set up Pa Kent as an irrational paranoid fool because Jor-El time and time again showed us he knew far better than his idiot adoptive father.

I just want everyone to know that I've been having a blast disagreeing with you all and agreeing with Big Brother and others.

Jun 18 - 07:22 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

Ok... You're having a blast.... Fantastic.
Question, have you ever been in a fight? And that's not a dis. It is a sincere question. Because there are a number of things it seems you are not considering. Even with two highly trained fighters in a small space, without the rules and the benefit of an octagon or a standard ring, bystanders are bound to get accidentally hit, crashed into, fell on, etc. Surrounding furniture will take some damage. The fight may go to the ground, and in the red zone of an inevitable adrenaline response, much of the control and training and conscious fight prowess will go out the window for both fighters despite their pedigree (because since even most professional fighters are not trained red zone life or death conflicts, it is difficult to determine how either fighter will respond once their mind goes into the red zone and the basics of fight/flight survival instincts begin to overwhelm conscious mastery of technique.
This is two professional experienced fighters in an all out fight to the death, whose training WILL break down and stuff in the surrounding environment, surely, will get damaged.
In Man of Steel, we're dealing with superhuman beings (!!), ALL of which with basically untested power, a Clark Kent with zero fight training that has a slight advantage over trained warriors only because he more used to having the powers (but not fighting with them).
All this considered, it somehow reasonable to expect him -IN HIS FIRST FIGHT!!!- to be able to minimize property damage and casualties? I'm afraid that does not make any sense at all.
This film definitely has its flaws, but its clear some thought and (at least) a passing appreciation of fight dynamics went into the construction of the fight scenes.

Jun 18 - 07:56 AM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

I actually agree with you on this. Superman clearly didn't know what the heck he was doing and he clearly isn't the inspirational Good beyond Good Icon that human being should stand behind...it's just the movie thinks that he is even though they show that he isn't. 75 years of comics and I think Superman may have killed a total of 2 people one which resulted in him hanging up his cape forever. See "What ever happened to the Man of Tomorrow" and this movie has him kill people left and right indirectly and directly...what the heck!?

I've been in a fight and your right, I had no idea what the heck I was doing and luckily for me neither did the other guy. Can I spectate on what I would do when watching an MMA match or even a boxing match, absolutely but I recognize that in an actual fight the "OMG I DONT KNOW WHAT I'M DOING AHHHH! DIVE TACKLE AHHH!" takes over, at least for me.

I just don't get why Clark didn't just up and kill Zod Earlier. This new cynical pessimistic Dower Brooding Clark never at any point established he didn't want to hurt anyone. I don't think superman should ever kill anyone, EVER! but like you said in another post this is not in any way the Silver age or Golden age superman.

Would you agree that superman then Failed miserably against Zod? Zod was "evil" and a "monster" for putting kryptonians first ABOVE ALL ELSE then forcing superman to do exactly the same. This superman even with free choice made the exact same mistakes as the puppet! WTF Man!

Jun 18 - 09:37 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

You just expressed a fundamental misunderstand of literally everything I just tried to explain to you about fighting. But whatever. You referenced another post. It was probably the one where I said that this was not Donnor's Superman. And after 35 years, it absolutely should not be. The Donnor/Reeve iteration of the character simply is not canon, and never was.
About Superman not killing. Let's take a look at that one. Since it's happened in the comic (IN THE CANON!), does this mean that you hate the comic and for some inexplicable reason went to see the film? Did you perhaps burn every copy you ever purchased of the infamous books in which Superman was forced to take a life, or just completely ignore that they exist?
Also, did we watch the same film? You mention that there was no scene where Superman didn't show that he didn't want to harm people. What about when he backed down from the punk in the bar?! And by the way, speaking of which, this is not a Superman worth looking up to?? Do you prefer then the thematic implications of Donnor's Superman 2, which showcased not one but two pivotal scenes where Superman bullies defenseless people?!?! He kills a depowered Zod, and beats up an out of shape trucker, and BOTH scenes are played for laughs. You're cool with, but have a problem with him snapping the neck of a terrorist thats trying to roast a small family alive?!

Jun 18 - 11:03 AM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

Hey I liked that he didn't murder that trucker for being a jerk to him. Then he wrecked his truck. What a prick. That just doesn't hurt that trucker. What ever he was hauling won't make its destination and if that trucker has a family they now have an unemployed Father...Whoops! Sorry Snyder's Superman film, I forgot I'm not suppose to think about consequence of absolute power.

I'm fine with this superman killing because we see that this superman is an immature bully early on. He steals cloths, he has no regard for human life in the epic fight scenes and given a choice between being clever and being a killer he's gonna choose to be a killer. Angst is awesome, I get it. It's the world we all currently live in.

That's fine, I don't hate this movie I just don't understand why i'm suppose to feel an immature poorly written superman is a more "real" one.

TO say that Superman, The man that can do anything, had no choice but to kill zod in that Man of steel head lock sonic boom way shows that you have no imagination but thats oaky, neither did this film. I'm okay with a cynical depressed brooding franchise. I loved The Dark Knight Trilogy.

I liked the movie, I would like to see a sequel and if Snyder has a directors cut I'd like to see that too. I don't care that the critics hate this movie, I can understand why sure but I don't care. I would love to see Superman's first flight from the Man of Steel again on Blu Ray! Let's you and I who are clearly fans of Big Action films end this by saying That first flight sequence was absolutely Incredible and I'll bet nothing tops it this summer!

Jun 18 - 11:20 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

You can save your juvenile assumptions about me, Bradly. It's not a good look. Anyone with a pinky's worth of fight knowledge and experience knows that hindsight 20/20, while nice and tidy, doesn't always apply in the heat of the moment. Especially when your skill and prowess are untested. It is entirely realistic that he would, in that moment, see no other option than to snap Zod's neck. Also, let's by forget (or conveniently overlook) that Zod too had the same Godlike power. And you know the funny thing about imagination is you don't need a whole lot of it to imagine you tap dancing around the hypocrisy of calling this Superman a "bully" and ignoring the points just made about the Donnor/Reeve sequel.

Jun 18 - 12:02 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

and seriously, by the way, FUCK THAT TRUCKER! He deserved to have his truck destroyed. And if he was a family man, maybe he shouldn't be in a bar disrespecting women!

Jun 18 - 12:07 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

Also Bradly, there is indeed another thing that bothers me about your complaint. And you opened the door for it since you brought up imagination. Tell me this, in terms of story structure, if Superman is perfect at the outset, flawless in his decision making and tapered at every seem from the very beginning, ...where do we go from there? How, pray tell, do we root for someone and hail them as am exemplary role model worth looking up to, if they've always been perfect and never themselves had to work or sacrifice or fail to achieve that higher standard? You wanna talk about cynicism, about pessimism? That, sir, is quite pessimistic; the assumption that hallowed greatness is something that comes with no cost or struggle at all.
Is it not enough that he virtually invisible and blessed with godlike power? He gets to start out perfect in mind and heart too?
How about we watch him grow in the sequel and become more worthy of praise as a top shelf archetype by bring shown having to deal with the consequences of battle, the implications (even when forced) of taking life. How about his first assignment as a reporter winds up being a story on the after-math of the first film's destruction? I'd find that compelling as hell! How about you?

Jun 18 - 01:04 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

**Invincible. Virtually invincible, I mean. (loving the edit features, RT)

Jun 18 - 01:08 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

I think we are just two very different viewers. You seem to be in the mind set of "That Trucker deserved it, That train yard deserved it, General Zod deserved it." Okay we have established that you have no sympathy for bullies big or small...or train yards. Thats cool Thats cool, it's all good, a cynical brooding superman as we just saw would feel the same way.

See I'm of the ilk where "Wasn't that a bit excessive?" is my general attitude. I mean your trying to hide a secret Clark why did you do that to the Truck? You don't even get cold why would you steal that Family's cloths? Never Help people!? Isn't that a little excessive to hide a secret!? Why is the Kryptons greatest scientist kicking the ass of kryptons greatest warrior?

I've liked films critics have hated before. Like Wicker Park or Vanilla Sky or just recently The Great Gatsby. Wicker Park has a 23% Man! I'm not mad about it though. I mean sure next to nobody has seen it but still. 23% seems very harsh to me.

I thought my above posts were more in agreement with your fighting assessment. I am sorry about the "You have no imagination" comment. I really don't like to fight, Love to argue but not fight.

I'm not lying when I say I really did like this movie just didn't think it was the greatest super hero movie ever. I feel like the only way are back in fourth is gonna end if I stop posting or say "My Bad, it's the greatest super hero movie ever and those critics are apart of a disney smear campaign"

Jun 18 - 01:18 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

i don't think it's the best superhero movie either. Hell Superman is not even one of my favorites. But I also don't think Supes is bully for killing Zod. If that's true then he'll always been a bully, on the page and on film (which actually opens up a whole other can of worms because in the comic we've seen Superman and even Batman portrayed as much MUCH worse than mere bullies! Lol)
Way I see it, we're all just discussing a shared passion and value for movies and comics. And there's never anything wrong with that.
But some folks cross the line, man. Did you read that one comment about how Superman 4: The Quest For Peace was somehow better than Man of Steel?!? Jesus, we should call the goddamn police on the guy! ;)

Jun 18 - 02:29 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

Here Here, I'm glad we can both recognize that we have a shared passion and this film is way better then Quest for Peace. I hate being conflicted like this about a film I like but like I said earlier I love to argue. Sorry if playing Devil's advocate got way out of hand. Can't wait for this Blu-ray and stoked for the sequel!

Jun 18 - 02:55 PM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

Yeah we were all teared up when Agent Colson died. So much that I went to get some nachos.

Jun 14 - 08:16 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

I laughed.

Jun 15 - 02:04 AM

Atul Aditya

Atul Aditya

I was like so this is why they introduced Maria otherwise there was no use of her!!

Jun 15 - 02:50 AM

Andrew Targaryen

Andrew Targaryen

Very true.

Jun 15 - 01:15 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

and you two are sterling examples of emotional balance. Val, you probably got nacho's after ol' yeller died and punched a kid on the way out of the theater and Jay, the last time you cried was when you were whacking off to Jack and Jill and squirted in your own eye.

Jun 15 - 08:55 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

You must still be in denial of Colson's death, huh? Its okay. You can always skip the scene and pretend he ran away. You must be heartbroken that the dude died by pulling off one of the dumbest moves in history.

Jun 15 - 10:43 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Yeah, why would an agent of a organization designed to deal with supes, not just run away from a supernatural threat when he was armed with a gun designed to take down a God. Also, Loki doesn't teleport, he projects illusions as the trickster God. If falling victim to a trick by the Norse God of deception qualifies as dumb there are a lot of dumb people in movies. Why commit crimes in Victorian London when you know Sherlock Holmes is just going to solve them?

Jun 16 - 12:37 AM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

Its dumb that he thinks he can take on a God...... alone.

Jun 16 - 12:45 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Yep, he should have just let his friends and people he admires die like Snyders Superman would have.

Jun 16 - 06:26 PM

Alfred Borden

Alfred Borden

When Colson died in Avengers (aka) the Ironman show- I literally felt nothing. All I did was wait for the climactic battle which deliverd. I didnt go in it expecting anything else & I didnt get anything else.

Jun 15 - 05:36 AM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Cool all the emotionally damaged and trollish RT members are getting together. Damaged trolls of the world unite!!!!

Jun 15 - 08:56 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

We agree on that one, Big Brother. On with the Avengers bashing! (walking away mumbling under my breath and shaking my head, "tourists..")

Jun 16 - 08:20 AM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

You know it's also kind of funny to me Big Brother. I thought people would flood in saying "Man of Steel is no Dark Knight" "YOU TAKE THAT BACK YOU SO!" "YOUR MOM IS NO DARK KNIGHT!!!" But it seems that it's Avengers vs Man of Steel...Didn't see that coming. I wonder if anyone will even bother brining up Man of Steel when Avengers 2 comes out? Will Man of Steel have staying Power like the Avengers apparently has?

Jun 16 - 04:17 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Never underestimate peoples desire to turn anything into a Marvel v DC debate.

Jun 16 - 06:28 PM

Dave J

Dave J

Users are comparing the two films because while "The Dark Knight" series has already ended that theirs already an announcement regarding the next "Man Of Steel" and "The Avengers" movies, except that at the end "The Avengers" is going to come out on top in terms of box office overall take!

Jun 17 - 03:22 PM

John Stovall

John Stovall

I guess I'm really easy to engaged emotionally. On wit no I'm not for most films never mind. Guess they just failed with folks to need characters to be built up over several films to appreciate them.

Jun 16 - 08:55 AM

Jackson Eckert

Jackson Eckert

Can David Goyer PLEASE not write it? PLEASE? The writing is really my only beef with Man of Steel. It could have been so much better...

Jun 14 - 05:54 PM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

Wanted more jokes perhaps?

Jun 14 - 07:17 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

Yep. Clark Stark.., I mean Tony Kent.., I mean, shit, whoever that guy was in the super suit that folks keep confusing with Iron Man, wasn't cracking enough jokes while saving the world. I want my heroes chewing the scenery, baby! I wanna see Deadpool in a cape winking at the audience after he checks out Lois Lane's ass (because you totally know he can see what kind of panties she is wearing. hehe!)
[again, Matanuki walks away shaking his head, mumbling to himself, "effing tourists.."]

Jun 16 - 08:29 AM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

Less Inconsistent crap would be nice. Maybe letting one of the many Ideas they through at the screen actually develop would be a plus.

Jun 14 - 11:31 PM

Atul Aditya

Atul Aditya

Like letting the World Engine finish it job. Its best the way it was done! though the action was enough for two man of steel films!!

Jun 15 - 02:54 AM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

Man when that world engine started humming in Imax and going bam bam bam I thought the theater was coming apart.

Jun 15 - 03:46 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

Yeah that was Fantastic Effect. You know what else was amazing! How Metropolis looked absolutely fine the next day! What's with people saying thats an inconsistent!?

Jun 15 - 04:35 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

**Spoilers** I kinda expected Superman to give the Russell Case line from Independence Day as he was destroying the world engine.

Jun 15 - 09:02 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

That's so crazy Big Brother! That reminded me of INdependence Day as well!

I mean the film reminded me of a lot of other films I liked. Russel Riding the Dragon while being chanced by Flying Machines...Avatar

The Genesis Babies...Matrix...then Laurence Fishburne shows up so that didn't help though I gotta say I was kind of bummed he didn't get more time as Perry White. I thought he was fantastic and represented something from old superman comics that I thought the film would also ignore. Why mankind is worth saving.

Seriously everybody who loves this film. Watch it again and really think about the Russel Crowe speach. About how Kal-El needs to be an inspiration for human beings to stand behind. Notice how superman by the end of it Is not this example at all but several human secondary characters are. Crazy I know!

Jun 15 - 11:16 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

Obviously Metropolis didn't look the same in one day...... ever heard of time lapse.

Jun 16 - 12:52 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

Miles and Miles desolation, Ash, a scene out of Cormic McCarthy's worst nightmare. I'm being serious now when I say what happened to metropolis was the worst I have ever seen a city in any film...and then in one quick cut Its perfectly fine. Not just the city but all the people. No one looks like they are even in morning. How long would it take to re-create metropolis?? Is Clark by the end of the film in his 40s? Is there a big memoral Fence aronund the Gaping Metropolis Crater? Did they just all agree to move 10 miles down the road ala Simpsons??

Again, Imagery HAUNTING, AMAZING, EPIC! the story around it..pffft awful.

Jun 16 - 04:19 PM

John Stovall

John Stovall

I loved Goyer's writing. Back off the great treatment of my beloved character.

Jun 16 - 08:56 AM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

*SPOILERS
So when Pa Kent and Jor El died, you felt nothing.

Jun 14 - 06:25 PM

Max M.

The Dude

Of all people to kill, Snyder kills Kevin fucking Costner. I felt something. And even if Russell Crowe did die, he came back later on so I wasn't really that sad.

Jun 14 - 09:13 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

The Dude Calls it perfectly especially considering how bad ass Jor-El was as Ghost Dad. Kevin Costner dying rather than letting his own son live up to his full potential? I felt the film was desperate to add angst with its teen demographic loves...thats what I felt.

Jun 14 - 11:25 PM

Ian Milheim

Ian Milheim

He died to save a stupid fucking dog, and could have been saved by pretty much anyone standing in that crowd. He must have had some sort of death wish, because that was clearly dumb as hell.

Jun 15 - 01:08 AM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

Okay, that was terrible writing on Goyer's part, but you didn't feel anything?

Jun 15 - 02:02 AM

Shaun D.

Steven Harris

@Bradly: I didn't really care for Coulson that much.. Yeah, he was cool and all, but all he did in the movie was to talk to some characters and quickly got stabbed by Loki. He's a Captain America Fanboy though, props to that.

Jun 15 - 04:49 AM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

Maybe "IT'S TERRIBLE WRITING GUY's ADMIT IT!!!!" is the wrong approach, after all I did love the movie. What I hated was the laziness of writing.

Kal-edl's Mom for example went through a check list of "This parting is super sad cuz I'm like his mom and stuff huh!" and the reason it isn't super sad is because not one time does she actually make a connection with her baby. Why isn't she talking to this baby she'll never get to talk to again? I personally read to all my kids WHILE THEY WERE STILL IN THE WOMB! Because that's what an actual parent does. The baby was being treated as if it was in another room. Then she goes through the "Oh this is sad huh" TWO MORE TIMES with two more devastating issue. The whole emotion of each event looked like someone told her netflix service was being interrupted. Aw man, that sucks.

Now the Pa Kent situation really pissed me off because I thought Kevin Costner emotionally Nailed Pa Kent and hey props to Henry Cavil for nailing a teen that's watching his Father die but the way it was written was *See Ian Milheim's above reaction*. He went back for a Dog!? Does David Goyer know what a Farmer does!??!!? SUPERMAN JUST WATCHED!!?? DOES DAVID GOYER KNOW KANSAS OR SUPERMAN AT ALL!? THE HECK KIND OF CRAPPY WRITING IS THIS!?

See it's the "THE HECK KIND OF CRAPPY WRITING IS THIS!?" that kept me from feeling a lot during a lot of the "dramatic scenes.

Last rant for this post. Clark lifts a bus out of the water and there are 2 exists for students to get out but every student on the bus is just content to wait and Die? WE see the back entrance AND the side Door wide open. Does Goyer think teens are just dumb? Oh for crying out loud the Bus Driver looks like he's waiting for the Bus as this is happening!

Colson was likable and Colson had charm because he was written to be. How would Goyer have written him in this movie? He would have been charmless and unlikable but a bad guy would have off the collar said "Your Charming and Likable Coulson so I'm gonna beat you up!" BAD WRITING!

Jun 15 - 06:55 AM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

I did admit it was horrible writing, but you can't act like the Avengers' script deserves an Oscar, too. I mean why would Colson engage Loki, who can teleport and do all this stuff, alone. Yeah, he had a big gun, but who even knew that it would work? It was a prototype.
Then, Thor gets hurt by a knife?
Also, how does and extraterrestrial ship, which should have like some force field around it, gets taken out that simply. The missile shouldn't have even got past the force field.
And I thought Stark said he had one minute to get out of the Shield propeller. It took atleast 5 minutes for that scene to be over.
Also, how can the Hulk say he's in control, yet the entire movie he allows the group to be cautious of him. He never told them his secret until the end. Also, if he always had control, why did he lose control when the ship blew up. Yeah, he was caught off guard, but he could re-vert back to his old self right?
Just face facts, Avengers' script was just as bad as MoS.

Jun 15 - 10:19 AM

Andrew Targaryen

Andrew Targaryen

I actually agree with Jay. The Avengers gets a free pass by fans because it's written by Joss Whedon, when in reality, there's nothing that makes it better than Man of Steel. I loved The Avengers (I gave it a 10/10), but I think Man of Steel had more to accomplish, and it did (very well too).

Jun 15 - 01:15 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

Avengers had fantastic dialogue exchanges. "I put a bullet in my mouth and the Big guy spit it out" for example. Thats quotable stuff. Nothing being quotable from Man of Steel is another problem with the script. Me and my kids can quote Avengers all day. Can you quote Man of Steel?

No, because just like in RETURNS. Henry Cavil isn't aloud to say anything! Kneel before Zod isn't in the movie. GOOD no corny dialogue. So what did Zod say that was memorable? Nothing. If I copy the Trailer "I WILL FIND HIM I WILL GET YOUR SON!" My kids aren't gonna think "Oh Dad is being Zod!" they will think "OH DAD IS SYNDRO! INCREDIBLE IS AWESOME!"

Quotable lines makes for good scripts and Man of Steel lacks these moments. Avengers had these moments every 10 minutes.

Superman also lacking a Hero moment really upset me. Hero moments are what superman is about! Murdering the bad guy when you have absolute Power isn't a hero moment, its lazy writing.

Jun 15 - 03:19 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

**Spoilers** I didn't feel anything for the deaths because a. Jor El is gonna die, everybody knows this and as Bradly said, they brought him back anyway and b. You knew Pa Kent was gonna die because they showed his grave before they showed him dying then instead of a tragic heart attack which Clark is powerless to stop they have him die in the stupidest manner possible saving a dog which Clark could have easily done without revealing his powers to the crowd, also could have saved Pa also without revealing his powers. Hell Pa could have saved himself if he'd run instead of stupidly gesticulating to Clark then closing his eyes and waiting to be wiped out.

Jun 15 - 08:50 PM

Omega728

Nathan Vang

Agent Colson did not die, see Agents of Shield tv series....

Jun 16 - 06:41 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

You ever ran from a tornado, Big Brother?... with a broken ankle? Give it a shot and let us know how it goes. We'll wait.
In the meantime, why is it stupid that Pa Kent would risk his life to save a dog? It doesn't take reputed philosopher to tell you that man can be judged by his treatment of animals. Add to that the agreed upon notion that dogs are "man's best friend", coupled with the fact that this is Pa Kent we are talking about (the moral center of the movie!) and suddenly it becomes pretty easy to believe that he would risk his life to save the dog. This, after all, is something that ordinary, less archetypically built folks do daily in real life.
It just seems like a really weird thing for people to be up in arms about.

Jun 16 - 08:16 AM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

You ever just stood there and let yourself die? I don't care how much that ankle hurts anybody without a death wish is hopping their ass to that overpass. On the dog thing it's not specifically that he died saving a dog it was the whole unnecessary aspect of it. Clark could have easily done what he did with no danger to himself and without revealing himself. The whole scene just seemed so contrived and frustratingly dumb. I also think you're thinking of another Pa Kent perhaps the Smallville and Donner versions. This is the Pa Kent who suggested maybe Clark should have let a busload of his friends die to protect his secret. In MoS Jor El was much more the moral center which was ironic since he seemed to be going more for a nurture over nature theme.

Jun 16 - 06:25 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

Ok you got me on that one. I too thought the whole "maybe" thing was weird and a little out there. But it was in the trailer, so I pretty much got over it long before seeing the film.

Jun 17 - 12:30 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

(My god when are they gonna get rid of this comment format that makes you find the beginning of the conversation instead of letting you respond to the goddamn comment??) But Big Brother, to add to the irony of your point is that the contrasting dynamic between Pa Kent and Jor el was paid off in full when Jor el finally gave Superman permission, and his blessing, to "save them all." For me that was one of the most powerful moments in a CBM, and certainly the best in a Superman film. He spends his entire life living in a household being raised by a morally grounded man with a real and certainly relatable distrust in the government, the same government that governs by fear and uses fear as one of the best sleight of hands to keep us divided and fractured as a culture. Of course people are not prepared to handle first contact with an alien race. No man wants to say "yeah, let your friends die," but what's that man's first priority as a father? His son's wellbeing, which he had every reason to believe would be immediately compromised by allowing the world to find out about his existence. (I'll go so far as to say that Clark would have become a villain had the government learned about and got their hands on him at that age. It would have been E.T. and Iron Giant all over again, but with graver consequences.) Then you have his other father who comes from the militaristic top rung of a scientifically advanced alien society whose perspective on the question is rightly in opposition.
I'd never just stand there and let myself die. But would you say that it is unheard of for a man who wears his morals on his sleeve to throw everything he believed and taught his son out the window in face of death?
Jor el set him free of the fears built into him from childhood. Pretty much, "well they know about you now. You're a man now. And they need you now. So GO! Achieve your destiny."
It was brilliant!

Jun 17 - 12:49 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

See Matanuki this is also what made it so lazy a script. He says you can save her..You Can save them all and then super man in the action sequences demonstrates he just has absolutely no "F's" To give about humans. Go watch it again and you'll see that the entire destruction of the Smallville site was all Clarks fault. This is where the movie becomes even more silly when fans say "Oh well...maybe that sears and train yard and i-hop were all empty when clark Irrationally tackled his enemies into it and brought it down...."

Also really ham fisted and cheesy as hell. After Jorel says you can save all of them and for no reason other than really bad writing, Clark decides to Jesus Cross pose out the window. This is why so many people prefer the Pa Kent of old because his Death taught Clark that he wasn't Jesus and not even he could break the bonds of death.

.....sept when he did with that whole time travel thing of course.

When Jor-El at the beginning of the movie said "How, He'll be a God to them" he very rudely set up Pa Kent as an irrational paranoid fool because Jor-El time and time again showed us he knew far better than his idiot adoptive father.

I just want everyone to know that I've been having a blast disagreeing with you all and agreeing with Big Brother and others.

Jun 18 - 07:22 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

Ok... You're having a blast.... Fantastic.
Question, have you ever been in a fight? And that's not a dis. It is a sincere question. Because there are a number of things it seems you are not considering. Even with two highly trained fighters in a small space, without the rules and the benefit of an octagon or a standard ring, bystanders are bound to get accidentally hit, crashed into, fell on, etc. Surrounding furniture will take some damage. The fight may go to the ground, and in the red zone of an inevitable adrenaline response, much of the control and training and conscious fight prowess will go out the window for both fighters despite their pedigree (because since even most professional fighters are not trained red zone life or death conflicts, it is difficult to determine how either fighter will respond once their mind goes into the red zone and the basics of fight/flight survival instincts begin to overwhelm conscious mastery of technique.
This is two professional experienced fighters in an all out fight to the death, whose training WILL break down and stuff in the surrounding environment, surely, will get damaged.
In Man of Steel, we're dealing with superhuman beings (!!), ALL of which with basically untested power, a Clark Kent with zero fight training that has a slight advantage over trained warriors only because he more used to having the powers (but not fighting with them).
All this considered, it somehow reasonable to expect him -IN HIS FIRST FIGHT!!!- to be able to minimize property damage and casualties? I'm afraid that does not make any sense at all.
This film definitely has its flaws, but its clear some thought and (at least) a passing appreciation of fight dynamics went into the construction of the fight scenes.

Jun 18 - 07:56 AM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

I actually agree with you on this. Superman clearly didn't know what the heck he was doing and he clearly isn't the inspirational Good beyond Good Icon that human being should stand behind...it's just the movie thinks that he is even though they show that he isn't. 75 years of comics and I think Superman may have killed a total of 2 people one which resulted in him hanging up his cape forever. See "What ever happened to the Man of Tomorrow" and this movie has him kill people left and right indirectly and directly...what the heck!?

I've been in a fight and your right, I had no idea what the heck I was doing and luckily for me neither did the other guy. Can I spectate on what I would do when watching an MMA match or even a boxing match, absolutely but I recognize that in an actual fight the "OMG I DONT KNOW WHAT I'M DOING AHHHH! DIVE TACKLE AHHH!" takes over, at least for me.

I just don't get why Clark didn't just up and kill Zod Earlier. This new cynical pessimistic Dower Brooding Clark never at any point established he didn't want to hurt anyone. I don't think superman should ever kill anyone, EVER! but like you said in another post this is not in any way the Silver age or Golden age superman.

Would you agree that superman then Failed miserably against Zod? Zod was "evil" and a "monster" for putting kryptonians first ABOVE ALL ELSE then forcing superman to do exactly the same. This superman even with free choice made the exact same mistakes as the puppet! WTF Man!

Jun 18 - 09:37 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

You just expressed a fundamental misunderstand of literally everything I just tried to explain to you about fighting. But whatever. You referenced another post. It was probably the one where I said that this was not Donnor's Superman. And after 35 years, it absolutely should not be. The Donnor/Reeve iteration of the character simply is not canon, and never was.
About Superman not killing. Let's take a look at that one. Since it's happened in the comic (IN THE CANON!), does this mean that you hate the comic and for some inexplicable reason went to see the film? Did you perhaps burn every copy you ever purchased of the infamous books in which Superman was forced to take a life, or just completely ignore that they exist?
Also, did we watch the same film? You mention that there was no scene where Superman didn't show that he didn't want to harm people. What about when he backed down from the punk in the bar?! And by the way, speaking of which, this is not a Superman worth looking up to?? Do you prefer then the thematic implications of Donnor's Superman 2, which showcased not one but two pivotal scenes where Superman bullies defenseless people?!?! He kills a depowered Zod, and beats up an out of shape trucker, and BOTH scenes are played for laughs. You're cool with, but have a problem with him snapping the neck of a terrorist thats trying to roast a small family alive?!

Jun 18 - 11:03 AM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

Hey I liked that he didn't murder that trucker for being a jerk to him. Then he wrecked his truck. What a prick. That just doesn't hurt that trucker. What ever he was hauling won't make its destination and if that trucker has a family they now have an unemployed Father...Whoops! Sorry Snyder's Superman film, I forgot I'm not suppose to think about consequence of absolute power.

I'm fine with this superman killing because we see that this superman is an immature bully early on. He steals cloths, he has no regard for human life in the epic fight scenes and given a choice between being clever and being a killer he's gonna choose to be a killer. Angst is awesome, I get it. It's the world we all currently live in.

That's fine, I don't hate this movie I just don't understand why i'm suppose to feel an immature poorly written superman is a more "real" one.

TO say that Superman, The man that can do anything, had no choice but to kill zod in that Man of steel head lock sonic boom way shows that you have no imagination but thats oaky, neither did this film. I'm okay with a cynical depressed brooding franchise. I loved The Dark Knight Trilogy.

I liked the movie, I would like to see a sequel and if Snyder has a directors cut I'd like to see that too. I don't care that the critics hate this movie, I can understand why sure but I don't care. I would love to see Superman's first flight from the Man of Steel again on Blu Ray! Let's you and I who are clearly fans of Big Action films end this by saying That first flight sequence was absolutely Incredible and I'll bet nothing tops it this summer!

Jun 18 - 11:20 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

You can save your juvenile assumptions about me, Bradly. It's not a good look. Anyone with a pinky's worth of fight knowledge and experience knows that hindsight 20/20, while nice and tidy, doesn't always apply in the heat of the moment. Especially when your skill and prowess are untested. It is entirely realistic that he would, in that moment, see no other option than to snap Zod's neck. Also, let's by forget (or conveniently overlook) that Zod too had the same Godlike power. And you know the funny thing about imagination is you don't need a whole lot of it to imagine you tap dancing around the hypocrisy of calling this Superman a "bully" and ignoring the points just made about the Donnor/Reeve sequel.

Jun 18 - 12:02 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

and seriously, by the way, FUCK THAT TRUCKER! He deserved to have his truck destroyed. And if he was a family man, maybe he shouldn't be in a bar disrespecting women!

Jun 18 - 12:07 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

Also Bradly, there is indeed another thing that bothers me about your complaint. And you opened the door for it since you brought up imagination. Tell me this, in terms of story structure, if Superman is perfect at the outset, flawless in his decision making and tapered at every seem from the very beginning, ...where do we go from there? How, pray tell, do we root for someone and hail them as am exemplary role model worth looking up to, if they've always been perfect and never themselves had to work or sacrifice or fail to achieve that higher standard? You wanna talk about cynicism, about pessimism? That, sir, is quite pessimistic; the assumption that hallowed greatness is something that comes with no cost or struggle at all.
Is it not enough that he virtually invisible and blessed with godlike power? He gets to start out perfect in mind and heart too?
How about we watch him grow in the sequel and become more worthy of praise as a top shelf archetype by bring shown having to deal with the consequences of battle, the implications (even when forced) of taking life. How about his first assignment as a reporter winds up being a story on the after-math of the first film's destruction? I'd find that compelling as hell! How about you?

Jun 18 - 01:04 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

**Invincible. Virtually invincible, I mean. (loving the edit features, RT)

Jun 18 - 01:08 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

I think we are just two very different viewers. You seem to be in the mind set of "That Trucker deserved it, That train yard deserved it, General Zod deserved it." Okay we have established that you have no sympathy for bullies big or small...or train yards. Thats cool Thats cool, it's all good, a cynical brooding superman as we just saw would feel the same way.

See I'm of the ilk where "Wasn't that a bit excessive?" is my general attitude. I mean your trying to hide a secret Clark why did you do that to the Truck? You don't even get cold why would you steal that Family's cloths? Never Help people!? Isn't that a little excessive to hide a secret!? Why is the Kryptons greatest scientist kicking the ass of kryptons greatest warrior?

I've liked films critics have hated before. Like Wicker Park or Vanilla Sky or just recently The Great Gatsby. Wicker Park has a 23% Man! I'm not mad about it though. I mean sure next to nobody has seen it but still. 23% seems very harsh to me.

I thought my above posts were more in agreement with your fighting assessment. I am sorry about the "You have no imagination" comment. I really don't like to fight, Love to argue but not fight.

I'm not lying when I say I really did like this movie just didn't think it was the greatest super hero movie ever. I feel like the only way are back in fourth is gonna end if I stop posting or say "My Bad, it's the greatest super hero movie ever and those critics are apart of a disney smear campaign"

Jun 18 - 01:18 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

i don't think it's the best superhero movie either. Hell Superman is not even one of my favorites. But I also don't think Supes is bully for killing Zod. If that's true then he'll always been a bully, on the page and on film (which actually opens up a whole other can of worms because in the comic we've seen Superman and even Batman portrayed as much MUCH worse than mere bullies! Lol)
Way I see it, we're all just discussing a shared passion and value for movies and comics. And there's never anything wrong with that.
But some folks cross the line, man. Did you read that one comment about how Superman 4: The Quest For Peace was somehow better than Man of Steel?!? Jesus, we should call the goddamn police on the guy! ;)

Jun 18 - 02:29 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

Here Here, I'm glad we can both recognize that we have a shared passion and this film is way better then Quest for Peace. I hate being conflicted like this about a film I like but like I said earlier I love to argue. Sorry if playing Devil's advocate got way out of hand. Can't wait for this Blu-ray and stoked for the sequel!

Jun 18 - 02:55 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

Its cause Man of Steel was directed by Zack Snyder. The critics hated him for Sucker Punch and the owl movie (sorta).
Joss Whedon came out with Cabin in the Woods and it got a 91% for its "original" story. I'm telling you if they took off Zack Snyder's name even though he still directed it and put Joss Whedon, it woulda had a 80-90%. Critics are bandwaggoners if you don't notice.
Schomes Know, Chris Stuckmann, Jeremy Jahns, Behind the Trailers, IGN, and even Christie Lemire (the woman who got death threats over TDKR) all gave this movie positive reviews. And I'm not saying RT is personally doing this, but the critics are.

Jun 14 - 06:31 PM

Jonathan Edward O.

Jon Owens

No.... It's not because the critics are "bandwagoning" it's because the script for MoS was bad.... The character development sucked... And the story was meh.... The only thing great about the film was the direction from Snyder and the action scenes... stop being paranoid.. You may not have disliked the movie but just because you didn't doesn't mean all the critics have a conspiracy against Snyder....

Jun 14 - 07:24 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

They complain of "overuse of CGI" in a Superman film? Okay, so lets blow up half of New York just to shoot this movie because critics wanted real deal. Also, Avengers' story was generic and did the same thing and got a 94%? Don't give me the whole "character development in the other films" thing because if someone who hadn't seen Iron Man 1 & 2,or Thor, or Cpt. America (notice I said or) they wouldn't understand the character. Plus, Hulk wasn't fleshed out in a single way, yet he was regarded as the best part of the film. Also, explain how YouTube critics who get money from ads and their jobs, all gave this film positive ratings.

Jun 14 - 08:07 PM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

Yeah I don't get the beef with the CGI, I mean the shit looked awesome right?

Jun 14 - 08:17 PM

Alan Smithee

Alan Smithee

I'm not here to defend MoS because I've not seen it yet. Obviously David Goyer doesn't have a single critical hit as the sole screenwriter, so it doesn't surprise me that the script is being panned. However, Jay has a perfectly valid point. Marvel's Cinematic Universe does get a free pass from most of the critics. In fact, there's not a single Marvel flick with what could even remotely be consider strong character development.

The perfect example of this bias comes from this top critic:
http://www.timeout.com/us/film/the-avengers
http://www.timeout.com/us/film/man-of-steel-movie-review

He reaches reeeal deep to try and place some hidden symbolism in the final battle of The Avengers, which was practically the entire third act and literally looks like it was ripped straight out of Transformers Dark of the Moon. Then he turns around and bashes Man of Steel's "Transformers-grade skyscraper snapping and bloodless catastrophe." Now that's what I call a double standard.

Jun 14 - 10:58 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

I'm sorry guy's but the story of Man of Steel (I film I liked) was terrible. NO CLARK IF THE GOVERNMENT FINDS OUT YOUR AN ALIEN YOU WILL NEVER BE ACCEPTED! then the scene Comes where they find out and all Pa Kents Fears come to life...Nothing! It didn't matter at all that the Government found out about him...Turns out Pa Kent was a paranoid loon...Thats one example of Terrible writing fellas.

I can just see a terrified Pa Kent pacing back and fourth outside of a movie Theater. "NO Martha, NO! If Clark ever found out that Nemo's Mom Died the Ramifications could be Terrible!" Paranoid Helicopter parent.

Jun 14 - 11:28 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

@Bradley I thought that the government used SM. They knew that Zod could destroy Earth and he was their only hope. When he fought for Earth, he then gained their trust.

Jun 15 - 12:17 AM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

The complaint about the overuse of CGI is the same as in Transformers where you have people fighting who you can't see what's happening. How many times in MoS did they use the old superspeed being coming from out of nowhere to tackle someone trick? I remember at least 6 times. This was Superman, not The Flash.

Jun 15 - 09:00 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

But thats Superman's power. So he can't use his power in a fight. Plus, the Avengers scene was a blur. All I saw was explosion, slow down for corny joke, and explosion. Quit riding Marvel's dick Big Sister. I don't wanna tell mom.

Jun 15 - 10:46 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

No you moron, but he and every other Kryptonian doesn't need to use the same trick over and over bludgeoning you over the head with it. So you didn't see Captain America engaged in hand to hand combat at regular speed in Avengers, you didn't see Hawkeye using his archery, you didn't see Thor call down the lightning and use Mjolnir. How exactly did explosions impede your view of the action in Avengers? Do grits magically cook at a different speed on your stove than anywhere else in the universe?

Jun 16 - 12:42 AM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Also genius, I love Nolan's Dark Knight movies, the original Superman films and Superman Returns and V for Vendetta so I'm not anti-DC, I'm anti-lazy movie making.

Jun 16 - 12:43 AM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

I'm sorry. Explosions around them dumbass. Even Haweye's arrow exploded. Capt. used a sheild against an explosion. Plus, the action wasn't always repetitve in MoS. Did you not see Superman fighting those two aliens in the first fight? They were disabling him from using his fliyng powers. Maybe if the movie scored a 89% you would be like "this is amazing!" Let me restate, Quit riding the Tomatometer's dick.

Jun 16 - 12:50 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Some of us are able to keep our eyes off the shiny object. No where in Avengers did an explosion block off the action. Also if you had a reading comprehension level above that of a third grader you'd realize nowhere did I say the action was always repetitive, when you have a movie that's 75% action sequences you're going to have to do a few different things. The overuse of super speed was painfully overdone to me, specifically the superspeed from off camera into the tackle leaving a character skimming across the concrete which was done at least 6 times. Maybe if the movie was good enough to score an 89% I'd say that, sadly this movie wasn't. It was a good actioner with a hamfisted script and lackluster story.

Jun 16 - 06:36 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

Bradley, I'm not sure why Pa Kent's fears are stupid. On the one hand, his concerns that the government will have an unpredictable (and likely contentious)reaction to discovering Clark's origin and powers are entirely reasonable. He is literally a redefinition of the term Illegal Alien for crying out loud! This is not paranoia. This is something pretty much relegated to common sense not long after one is old enough to string three sentences together. On the other hand, Jonathan Kent has always, in every iteration of the character both in the comics and movies, been an advocate of Clark hiding his powers from the government and the world at large, at least until he was old enough and ready to embrace who he himself is without the potential threat of being ostracized and quarantined. So is your problem with the movie, or with the mythology itself?

Jun 18 - 06:54 AM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

The film shows why Pa Kent was irrational when he gives him self up to the Govt and what does the govt do to poor Clark!? Absolutely nothing. Clark has to alow them to think they are in control. Pa Kent's fear of the Government would be like if you had a son worrying about a group of ants entering your home and carrying your son away. Nothing proves this more than the end when superman destroys "a million dollar satelite!" and all the official can do is be mad about it and Clark knows this.

Jun 18 - 07:26 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

You know last I checked Bradly, Jonathan Kent is not a member of the Cobra Kai. So why would he ever think in terms of imposed power hierarchies? Why would he think, "Well Clark is a god so screw the government if they don't like it. He can squash them like ants."

Jun 18 - 08:03 AM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

Pa Kent was a tin foil hat wearing fox news fearing pessimistic hopeless jerk. Ghost Dad owns Human dad in this new film franchise.

Jun 18 - 09:40 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

You're rambling, bro. There's no part of your diatribe against Jonathan Kent that makes sense. At least BB was all on his case about the "Let a bus full of your friends die" thing. At least that one has traction. It's paper thin however, since in the scene itself Jonathan showed he was conflicted in his answer, but yeah..

Jun 18 - 11:13 AM

bigbrother

Bigbrother .

Mat, I'm still with Bradly on this one, you don't have to be Machiavelli to understand invulnerability. He lives with this kid day in and day out, he pretty much knows what he can do. Seriously? What did he think was gonna happen? That's why I like previous incarnations of Ma and Pa Kent who realized exactly how destructive Clark could be if he went wrong, not filled his head full of paranoia and doubt. To paraphrase The Dark Knight this may be the Superman we have, but it's not the one we deserve. Also to a point you made in another forum, I don't think MoS is Spiderman 3, that was just a bad movie. MoS however is flawed in some very fundamental ways and they've got a ton of work to do to make the sequel great. It's good in a turn off your brain and watch the robots fight kind of way and there's nothing wrong with that, I just disagree that it's anywhere approaching a "great" movie.

Jun 18 - 05:53 PM

Max M.

The Dude

I heard the same thing happened with Pain & Gain. It was only rumor, but I heard that Pain & Gain was pretty good, and the only reason why some critics took a giant shit on it was because it was by Michael Bay. If the movie stayed exactly the same, but if a famous director like Quentin Tarantino or Guy Ritchie's name was attached to it instead of Michael Bay, the movie would've at least reached the 70's mark.

Jun 14 - 09:17 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

I thought Pain and Gain was an entertaining film. I mean it was sorta fun. Its jokes were hit and miss though. However, I really enjoyed it.

Jun 15 - 01:59 AM

Atul Aditya

Atul Aditya

C'mon those jokes were most of the times miss!

Jun 15 - 02:52 AM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

I laughed at the Rock a lot. 80% of his jokes hit. Everyone else............ not so much.

Jun 15 - 10:09 AM

Wilhelm

Wil B.

One reason I think critics are being so harsh towards Man of Steel is the same reason they weren't glowing with their reviews for Amazing Spider-Man: They had already seen the characters origin done before in a great movie. The fact that they are remaking movies that were so well received and successful probably is what makes critics raise their standards so high.

Jun 15 - 02:21 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

I don't understand some fanboys. As if it is impossible to like a DC film without bashing Marvel, and vice versa. Seriously, if the action in Avengers was too hard to follow then someone desperately needs to get their eyes checked. On the flipside, bashing MOS and holding up Avengers as if it is somehow a far superior example of movie perfection is equally ridiculous.

Jun 16 - 08:25 AM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Not movie perfection, just better handling of dialog and story. To me Avengers was just a much more well rounded movie. As was Batman Begins and TDK. None of those movie's is an Apocalypse Now or Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, but they're in the same genre so it's natural to make that easier comparison.

Jun 16 - 06:40 PM

Roger Keen

Roger Keen

My biggest problem is I went into Man of Steel expecting the Batman Begins of Superman, I didn't get that its seemed to lack the overall development of Clark into Superman at least to me. Kinda like if they would have just killed Bruce's parents and next scene he's Batman...needed that build from Clark to Superman, not just the little flashbacks and scenes of random heroism... and the way the killed Costner off was absolutely retarded..

Jun 17 - 09:52 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

What's retarded, Roger, is I just had to hit the Reply button on my own damn comment to say this to you. lol. @Big Brother. You know what bothers me? If you remember, I used to be quite vocal in my contempt for the Superman mythology and character. And here I am today not only defending a Superman movie, but holding it up in high regard. The fact that folks who didn't like it are making it out to be like the Spiderman 3 of 2013 is making me wanna throw this chair I'm sitting on. lol.
I loved the first two Donnor films. Still do. But holy shit, talk about a treasure trove of flaws!!! Those films are great for nostalgia, time capsule relics of a bygone era. But THIS, this is SUPERMAN!

Jun 17 - 12:57 PM

bigbrother

Bigbrother .

He may be your Superman, he's not mine. I don't consider dumbing down a character to be an improvement on him. They took the path of least resistance with this incarnation. Superman is and always has been an icon to strive for, not in MoS unless you want the lesson for your kids to be get supercharged by the sun and they can do what they want.

Jun 18 - 05:57 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

lol He's not "my" Superman. That reminds me of that "my" team shit people say. He's simply Superman for this generation, and a compelling one to boot. He's what Routh wasnt. He didnt throw around his only weakness when the plot called for it. He wasnt a stalking deadbeat dad...
If this is somehow dumbed down from the Donnor films in your view, I recommend watching them again, bro.

Jun 18 - 07:09 PM

bigbrother

Bigbrother .

Not talking about the Donner versions which were campy, but were loyal to the nature of the character and I think it's crazy at this point to be claiming he's the Superman for this generation. By dumbing down I mean they took every element that has been Superman for 80 years and instead of looking for interesting ways to adapt them into an compelling character just said, he kills people now, he has no conflict with his kryptonian and human heritage, he doesn't take the higher ground but just mopes around and bashes whatever gets in his way. He's an angry teenager in this film, not Superman. Instead of believing a man can fly all I believe is a man can frown. The only thing MoS had for me over the Superman animated series and JLA cartoon was blinding CGI special effects which were dazzling.

Jun 18 - 08:42 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

Lol "a man can frown". Good one. I agree they have a lot of work to do to make the sequel work and to further justify the decisions made in their set up. I don't think it was a great film, but I do like the set up. I just think you guys are being a little too hard on this film, and woefully oversimplifying.

Jun 19 - 02:18 AM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

You're probably right, not sure how we got here. I actually enjoyed the movie enough that I'd call it a 60% but somehow in the course of discussing it I became the guy who hates Superman and ended up blasting the movies flaws into the ground.

Jun 19 - 03:10 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

Man you know what's funny about that?! I'm supposed to be the guy who hates Superman and suddenly I've become the guy defending him on both here AND Screenrant. Where, by the way, it's worse. That's where commenters are STILL complaining about the suit. lol. I'm interested in what you and Bradly think about it when it comes out on dvd and you get those multiple viewings to pick it apart more. Myself as well. You might remember that I usually need those closed captions to get the full experience of any movie due to the unfortunate though inescapable hearing issue I disclosed back when we used to talk on here more frequently. All three Nolan Batman films were immensely better for me when I could appreciate the dialogue more. And, conversely, all three Transformers films were quite worse. lol. I didn't even watch Prometheus until it came out on dvd. And I'm glad I did because it was dialogue heavy and without those precious captions I would have been completely lost. Jesus! Imagine watching Blade Runner without being able to appreciate the thematic payoff of the Tears in the Rain speech?!
I'm looking forward to the sequel to this (because smart money says they'll address all our issues with MOS), but I'm much more looking forward to the dvd so I can get an even deeper experience.

Jun 19 - 06:54 AM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

So that's why you liked Superman, for all my complaints and issues with it, not being able to hear it wasn't one of them :P

Jun 19 - 03:58 PM

Dave J

Dave J

Don't be silly Bigbrother, I think what he's saying is that he wanted to see it with the close captioning on was so that he could have a better grasp at its dialogue for this function is not always used for the hearing impaired!

And sometimes when people are watching films on the big screen, that the dialogue is too hard to make out since the sound effects are sometimes louder than the characters who are talking! I myself don't normally see drama films in theatres except the odd one(did see The Place Beyond The Pines on the big screen though) solely because of that reason, and for the possibility of missing vital scenes because of going up to get refills and so forth! And one of my friends missed the final act of Casino Royale because he had to use the washroom and I ended up explaining to him what happened, pointing out that the theatre doesn't stop for anyone regardless of what the reasons are! The close captioning function is not only for the hearing impaired but also so that that when the characters are speaking in 'whispers' or 'softly' and so forth that we can get abetter sense what they're saying since the dialogue in films has radically changed since the 1930's , and for confirmation regarding slangs not often used in peoples vocabulary since they're hundreds of spoken words not used here but are used in other English speaking countries or other countries that also use the English language for instance Gwilo(pronounced Gwee-low) is a term given by the people of Hong Hong to Chinese people who can only speak better English than Chinese, or was that also a term used for English speaking people!

Jun 19 - 08:08 PM

Fred Brooks

Fred Brooks

Calm down there, it's just film reviews. You know that saying, everyone with an opinion including film critics have a you know what. I saw "MOS" and thought it was pretty good. And there was no blur in any action scenes in "The Avengers", just like "MO" all the action scenes we're clear as day to me, but than again I have pretty good eye sight so what can say, lol.

Jun 19 - 12:44 AM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

Wanted more jokes perhaps?

Jun 14 - 07:17 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

Yep. Clark Stark.., I mean Tony Kent.., I mean, shit, whoever that guy was in the super suit that folks keep confusing with Iron Man, wasn't cracking enough jokes while saving the world. I want my heroes chewing the scenery, baby! I wanna see Deadpool in a cape winking at the audience after he checks out Lois Lane's ass (because you totally know he can see what kind of panties she is wearing. hehe!)
[again, Matanuki walks away shaking his head, mumbling to himself, "effing tourists.."]

Jun 16 - 08:29 AM

Frisby2007

Frisby 2007

Top News:
Not a surprise; haven't seen it yet, but this was to be expected.

Fresh:

1. How is this Planes shit fresh news? Disney, stop with all of these shitty vehicle & CG animated movies, & work on some hand-drawn ones (which is when you're at your best). As for the Avengers part, looking forward to this.

2. All of this looks great, but that Michal Bay part is the one thing that almost ruins this whole news. His name is all I need to read on any movie to stay away from it.

3. Yawnville.

4. Not sure what all this Tearling stuff is but since it has Emma Watson, Warner Bros, & Heyman in it, I can clearly say I am excited for it. But I'm still waiting on more news about her role as Belle in the live action Beauty & the Beast movie.

5. More Yawnville.

6. Sorry Hanks, great actor, but still more Yawnville news.

Rotten:

3. Wanted to see this movie, & I definitely look forward to a film like this over any excrement involving ugly talking vehicles (except for Thomas the Engine, & Benny the Cab), but since I haven't seen it I can't say anything about this news.

8. Ummm...typo? Really embarrassing one? Anyways, This should be a little more on the fresh area, but since T4 sucked ass while the previous 3 were amazing, it's easy to see why, sadly (seriously, why wasn't Worthington cast for Connor? Bale only made John so lifeless). But Schwarzenegger is back, so I look forward to this, only for a little.

1. After watching That's My Boy (and to this day I still wonder what fucktard at the Razzies would have the brain level of stupidity to give Breaking Dawn the sweep over this), worst piece of shit Sandler film I have seen to date, reading Adam's name on anything is rotten. Like, rotting trash filled with burning shit rotten. Period.

Jun 14 - 07:23 PM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

1) Not too hyped on this Planes either. Cars was enough, then they gave us Cars 2 which few people wanted and now Planes. Note that the Pixar branch of Disney is not named but you can't help but think they are involved in some fashion. Anyway, screw Planes... it's pretty weak.

Jun 14 - 08:21 PM

Frisby2007

Frisby 2007

Only further proves tht Pixar & Disney are NOT the same thing. But the reason they look so involved it because of how identical in style the planes are designed.

Jun 15 - 02:35 PM

This comment has been removed.

Valmordas

Val Mordas

I was suggesting something interesting and fresh, not the Little Mermaid, you fucking goon. I have no problem with CGI, only lame spinoffs that seem unlikely to interest but the most shallow of kids and lobotomized adults such as yourself.

Jun 14 - 08:47 PM

Ian Milheim

Ian Milheim

Man, you love responding to everything on this page haha

Jun 15 - 01:12 AM

Frisby2007

Frisby 2007

I'm going to take the wildest guess that the removed comments was from Troy?

Jun 15 - 02:41 PM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

He called me a hand drawing purist (LOL?) and said I'd probably like everything to go the route of the Little Mermaid in terms of story/plot.

Jun 15 - 03:50 PM

Frisby2007

Frisby 2007

Typical of him. But the whole "to go the route of the Little Mermaid in terms of story/plot"; take note that he likes Cars, where story/plot took a route (pun intended) that's been taken before, done better & far less cliche.

Jun 15 - 05:13 PM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

Doc Hollywood lol.

Jun 15 - 08:06 PM

Troy Solomon

Troy Solomon

Val I wasn't responding to you, I was responding to Frisby but I was exactly proud of the choice of words I used so I deleted it.

Jun 15 - 03:57 PM

Frisby2007

Frisby 2007

Well I'm sorry that (unlike you) I support a medium which is now a dying art form (and anyone that says it isn't is an idiot) that people like Lassetter aren't making any effort to keep alive. But that aside, I've said it to many people, I don't support garbage. i.E rip offs of already crap films (Cars), anything from Pixar (unless it's a sequel to The Incredibles), & especially projects that don't need to be CGI (Frozen, Popeye, Peanuts, & Captain Underpants).

Jun 15 - 06:03 PM

Troy Solomon

Troy Solomon

Just quick off-topic question but have ever heard of a movie called Foodfight? (BTW I appreciate all mediums of animation unlike you)

Jun 15 - 06:14 PM

Troy Solomon

Troy Solomon

Also http://youtu.be/5AvrBFlJeMs just being honest

Jun 15 - 06:31 PM

Frisby2007

Frisby 2007

The one with all the name-brand food characters? And sure you do, that's why you use quotes like "so called elegant 2D animated movies" & "is it because CG animation is more efficient to produce than your precious 2D movies".

The video link doesn't work.

Jun 15 - 06:53 PM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

Apology accepted, and for the record although I'm not purist I can appreciate the hand drawn animated art form, as well as CGI. Neither one makes a great film on it's own, that's entirely up to the writers and director.

Jun 15 - 08:10 PM

Jonathan Edward O.

Jon Owens

No.... It's not because the critics are "bandwagoning" it's because the script for MoS was bad.... The character development sucked... And the story was meh.... The only thing great about the film was the direction from Snyder and the action scenes... stop being paranoid.. You may not have disliked the movie but just because you didn't doesn't mean all the critics have a conspiracy against Snyder....

Jun 14 - 07:24 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

They complain of "overuse of CGI" in a Superman film? Okay, so lets blow up half of New York just to shoot this movie because critics wanted real deal. Also, Avengers' story was generic and did the same thing and got a 94%? Don't give me the whole "character development in the other films" thing because if someone who hadn't seen Iron Man 1 & 2,or Thor, or Cpt. America (notice I said or) they wouldn't understand the character. Plus, Hulk wasn't fleshed out in a single way, yet he was regarded as the best part of the film. Also, explain how YouTube critics who get money from ads and their jobs, all gave this film positive ratings.

Jun 14 - 08:07 PM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

Yeah I don't get the beef with the CGI, I mean the shit looked awesome right?

Jun 14 - 08:17 PM

Alan Smithee

Alan Smithee

I'm not here to defend MoS because I've not seen it yet. Obviously David Goyer doesn't have a single critical hit as the sole screenwriter, so it doesn't surprise me that the script is being panned. However, Jay has a perfectly valid point. Marvel's Cinematic Universe does get a free pass from most of the critics. In fact, there's not a single Marvel flick with what could even remotely be consider strong character development.

The perfect example of this bias comes from this top critic:
http://www.timeout.com/us/film/the-avengers
http://www.timeout.com/us/film/man-of-steel-movie-review

He reaches reeeal deep to try and place some hidden symbolism in the final battle of The Avengers, which was practically the entire third act and literally looks like it was ripped straight out of Transformers Dark of the Moon. Then he turns around and bashes Man of Steel's "Transformers-grade skyscraper snapping and bloodless catastrophe." Now that's what I call a double standard.

Jun 14 - 10:58 PM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

I'm sorry guy's but the story of Man of Steel (I film I liked) was terrible. NO CLARK IF THE GOVERNMENT FINDS OUT YOUR AN ALIEN YOU WILL NEVER BE ACCEPTED! then the scene Comes where they find out and all Pa Kents Fears come to life...Nothing! It didn't matter at all that the Government found out about him...Turns out Pa Kent was a paranoid loon...Thats one example of Terrible writing fellas.

I can just see a terrified Pa Kent pacing back and fourth outside of a movie Theater. "NO Martha, NO! If Clark ever found out that Nemo's Mom Died the Ramifications could be Terrible!" Paranoid Helicopter parent.

Jun 14 - 11:28 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

@Bradley I thought that the government used SM. They knew that Zod could destroy Earth and he was their only hope. When he fought for Earth, he then gained their trust.

Jun 15 - 12:17 AM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

The complaint about the overuse of CGI is the same as in Transformers where you have people fighting who you can't see what's happening. How many times in MoS did they use the old superspeed being coming from out of nowhere to tackle someone trick? I remember at least 6 times. This was Superman, not The Flash.

Jun 15 - 09:00 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

But thats Superman's power. So he can't use his power in a fight. Plus, the Avengers scene was a blur. All I saw was explosion, slow down for corny joke, and explosion. Quit riding Marvel's dick Big Sister. I don't wanna tell mom.

Jun 15 - 10:46 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

No you moron, but he and every other Kryptonian doesn't need to use the same trick over and over bludgeoning you over the head with it. So you didn't see Captain America engaged in hand to hand combat at regular speed in Avengers, you didn't see Hawkeye using his archery, you didn't see Thor call down the lightning and use Mjolnir. How exactly did explosions impede your view of the action in Avengers? Do grits magically cook at a different speed on your stove than anywhere else in the universe?

Jun 16 - 12:42 AM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Also genius, I love Nolan's Dark Knight movies, the original Superman films and Superman Returns and V for Vendetta so I'm not anti-DC, I'm anti-lazy movie making.

Jun 16 - 12:43 AM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

I'm sorry. Explosions around them dumbass. Even Haweye's arrow exploded. Capt. used a sheild against an explosion. Plus, the action wasn't always repetitve in MoS. Did you not see Superman fighting those two aliens in the first fight? They were disabling him from using his fliyng powers. Maybe if the movie scored a 89% you would be like "this is amazing!" Let me restate, Quit riding the Tomatometer's dick.

Jun 16 - 12:50 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Some of us are able to keep our eyes off the shiny object. No where in Avengers did an explosion block off the action. Also if you had a reading comprehension level above that of a third grader you'd realize nowhere did I say the action was always repetitive, when you have a movie that's 75% action sequences you're going to have to do a few different things. The overuse of super speed was painfully overdone to me, specifically the superspeed from off camera into the tackle leaving a character skimming across the concrete which was done at least 6 times. Maybe if the movie was good enough to score an 89% I'd say that, sadly this movie wasn't. It was a good actioner with a hamfisted script and lackluster story.

Jun 16 - 06:36 PM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

Bradley, I'm not sure why Pa Kent's fears are stupid. On the one hand, his concerns that the government will have an unpredictable (and likely contentious)reaction to discovering Clark's origin and powers are entirely reasonable. He is literally a redefinition of the term Illegal Alien for crying out loud! This is not paranoia. This is something pretty much relegated to common sense not long after one is old enough to string three sentences together. On the other hand, Jonathan Kent has always, in every iteration of the character both in the comics and movies, been an advocate of Clark hiding his powers from the government and the world at large, at least until he was old enough and ready to embrace who he himself is without the potential threat of being ostracized and quarantined. So is your problem with the movie, or with the mythology itself?

Jun 18 - 06:54 AM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

The film shows why Pa Kent was irrational when he gives him self up to the Govt and what does the govt do to poor Clark!? Absolutely nothing. Clark has to alow them to think they are in control. Pa Kent's fear of the Government would be like if you had a son worrying about a group of ants entering your home and carrying your son away. Nothing proves this more than the end when superman destroys "a million dollar satelite!" and all the official can do is be mad about it and Clark knows this.

Jun 18 - 07:26 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

You know last I checked Bradly, Jonathan Kent is not a member of the Cobra Kai. So why would he ever think in terms of imposed power hierarchies? Why would he think, "Well Clark is a god so screw the government if they don't like it. He can squash them like ants."

Jun 18 - 08:03 AM

Brad and Netflix

Bradly Martin

Pa Kent was a tin foil hat wearing fox news fearing pessimistic hopeless jerk. Ghost Dad owns Human dad in this new film franchise.

Jun 18 - 09:40 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

You're rambling, bro. There's no part of your diatribe against Jonathan Kent that makes sense. At least BB was all on his case about the "Let a bus full of your friends die" thing. At least that one has traction. It's paper thin however, since in the scene itself Jonathan showed he was conflicted in his answer, but yeah..

Jun 18 - 11:13 AM

bigbrother

Bigbrother .

Mat, I'm still with Bradly on this one, you don't have to be Machiavelli to understand invulnerability. He lives with this kid day in and day out, he pretty much knows what he can do. Seriously? What did he think was gonna happen? That's why I like previous incarnations of Ma and Pa Kent who realized exactly how destructive Clark could be if he went wrong, not filled his head full of paranoia and doubt. To paraphrase The Dark Knight this may be the Superman we have, but it's not the one we deserve. Also to a point you made in another forum, I don't think MoS is Spiderman 3, that was just a bad movie. MoS however is flawed in some very fundamental ways and they've got a ton of work to do to make the sequel great. It's good in a turn off your brain and watch the robots fight kind of way and there's nothing wrong with that, I just disagree that it's anywhere approaching a "great" movie.

Jun 18 - 05:53 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

They complain of "overuse of CGI" in a Superman film? Okay, so lets blow up half of New York just to shoot this movie because critics wanted real deal. Also, Avengers' story was generic and did the same thing and got a 94%? Don't give me the whole "character development in the other films" thing because if someone who hadn't seen Iron Man 1 & 2,or Thor, or Cpt. America (notice I said or) they wouldn't understand the character. Plus, Hulk wasn't fleshed out in a single way, yet he was regarded as the best part of the film. Also, explain how YouTube critics who get money from ads and their jobs, all gave this film positive ratings.

Jun 14 - 08:07 PM

This comment has been removed.

James Russell

James Russell

What are you bashing him for? He did say it was "meh", if you read it.

Jun 14 - 08:33 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

Maybe you need to grow up....... oh wait, you're 45.

Jun 15 - 02:06 AM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

I was bored and nothing was in theaters, so I just watched it.

Jun 15 - 12:12 AM

Ian Milheim

Ian Milheim

You don't have to answer to that asshole.

Jun 15 - 01:07 AM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

If only you knew who you were defending...

Jun 15 - 03:44 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

You know, Mordas, I stopped doing that like a week ago.

Jun 15 - 03:49 PM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

Yeah we were all teared up when Agent Colson died. So much that I went to get some nachos.

Jun 14 - 08:16 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

I laughed.

Jun 15 - 02:04 AM

Atul Aditya

Atul Aditya

I was like so this is why they introduced Maria otherwise there was no use of her!!

Jun 15 - 02:50 AM

Andrew Targaryen

Andrew Targaryen

Very true.

Jun 15 - 01:15 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

and you two are sterling examples of emotional balance. Val, you probably got nacho's after ol' yeller died and punched a kid on the way out of the theater and Jay, the last time you cried was when you were whacking off to Jack and Jill and squirted in your own eye.

Jun 15 - 08:55 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

You must still be in denial of Colson's death, huh? Its okay. You can always skip the scene and pretend he ran away. You must be heartbroken that the dude died by pulling off one of the dumbest moves in history.

Jun 15 - 10:43 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Yeah, why would an agent of a organization designed to deal with supes, not just run away from a supernatural threat when he was armed with a gun designed to take down a God. Also, Loki doesn't teleport, he projects illusions as the trickster God. If falling victim to a trick by the Norse God of deception qualifies as dumb there are a lot of dumb people in movies. Why commit crimes in Victorian London when you know Sherlock Holmes is just going to solve them?

Jun 16 - 12:37 AM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

Its dumb that he thinks he can take on a God...... alone.

Jun 16 - 12:45 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Yep, he should have just let his friends and people he admires die like Snyders Superman would have.

Jun 16 - 06:26 PM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

Yeah I don't get the beef with the CGI, I mean the shit looked awesome right?

Jun 14 - 08:17 PM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

1) Not too hyped on this Planes either. Cars was enough, then they gave us Cars 2 which few people wanted and now Planes. Note that the Pixar branch of Disney is not named but you can't help but think they are involved in some fashion. Anyway, screw Planes... it's pretty weak.

Jun 14 - 08:21 PM

Frisby2007

Frisby 2007

Only further proves tht Pixar & Disney are NOT the same thing. But the reason they look so involved it because of how identical in style the planes are designed.

Jun 15 - 02:35 PM

James Russell

James Russell

What are you bashing him for? He did say it was "meh", if you read it.

Jun 14 - 08:33 PM

OG Cutler

Cutler's 5th Account

Maybe you need to grow up....... oh wait, you're 45.

Jun 15 - 02:06 AM

Alex Perry

Alex Perry

They just made a movie worse than Quest for Peace. Is is actually possible to make one worse than Man of Steel!?

Jun 14 - 08:35 PM

Atul Aditya

Atul Aditya

Yeah Superman: Saving Alex that would be the worst!!

Jun 15 - 03:02 AM

Mohd Syafiq Bin Jabaruddin

Mohd Syafiq Bin Jabaruddin

It's pretty easy to make a movie worse than one that is favored by the majority of critics.

Jun 15 - 03:29 AM

Matanuki

Matanuki .

Holy smokes!!!! Of all the complaints and claims, this is by far the most ridiculous. It's one thing to say you didn't like it, which is fine. But it is quite another to say that (sweet Jesus!).. that Man of Steel is a worse film than Quest for Peace. Hyperbole much, Alex?!

Jun 18 - 07:21 AM

This comment has been removed.

Valmordas

Val Mordas

I was suggesting something interesting and fresh, not the Little Mermaid, you fucking goon. I have no problem with CGI, only lame spinoffs that seem unlikely to interest but the most shallow of kids and lobotomized adults such as yourself.

Jun 14 - 08:47 PM

Ian Milheim

Ian Milheim

Man, you love responding to everything on this page haha

Jun 15 - 01:12 AM

Frisby2007

Frisby 2007

I'm going to take the wildest guess that the removed comments was from Troy?

Jun 15 - 02:41 PM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

He called me a hand drawing purist (LOL?) and said I'd probably like everything to go the route of the Little Mermaid in terms of story/plot.

Jun 15 - 03:50 PM

Frisby2007

Frisby 2007

Typical of him. But the whole "to go the route of the Little Mermaid in terms of story/plot"; take note that he likes Cars, where story/plot took a route (pun intended) that's been taken before, done better & far less cliche.

Jun 15 - 05:13 PM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

Doc Hollywood lol.

Jun 15 - 08:06 PM

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