Box Office Guru Wrapup: Ultraviolent Pics Lead First Weekend of 2013

Summary

Just as with last year, 2013 kicked off its first frame with an overperforming horror flick debuting at number one as audiences powered Texas Chainsaw 3D to the top spot. Holiday holdovers fared well with most dropping by about 30% from last weekend's sturdy session. Back to Article

Comments

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

It's sad that a lot of sheep are going to waste money on TRIUMPH OF THE WILL PART II this Friday. What's worse, they are going to believe everything they see, resulting in them becoming bigger sheep.

Jan 6 - 04:16 PM

Matthew R.

Matthew Reimer

Whats Triumph Of The Will Part 2 and Zero Dark Thirty comes out in wide release next week and a lot of people are going to see it so that's most likely to win the box office.

Jan 6 - 04:36 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Never heard of it, so I'm doubting "a lot" of people are going to waste money on it. Educate us, what's it about? and what's so offensive about it.

Jan 6 - 05:38 PM

Chris Bland

Chris Bland

"Triumph of the Will" is a 1930s Nazi propaganda film directed by Leni Riefenstahl. My guess is that Mick Travis is calling some film he doesn't like "Triumph of the Will II", because as intellectual luminaries like Glenn Beck have proven time and time again, baselessly linking something that you don't like to the Nazis is the absolutely fairest way to criticize and open a meaning dialogue‚?¶

Jan 6 - 09:10 PM

Chris Bland

Chris Bland

See, was that so hard. Now, instead of some oblique reference to Triumph of the Will, we now know unambiguously that you really dislike Zero Dark Thirty and why you dislike it. BTW, referring to Glenn Beck as a "intellectual luminary" was sarcasm (was that not obvious?), in actuality I feel that Mr. Beck is an ass-clown. Which is precisely why I hate to see others stooping to use his favorite rhetorical device (i.e. everything I don‚??t like is linked to the Nazis!), rather than just impugning something outright (although your rape comment and the bit about Goebbels masturbating to ZDT was kind of Glenn Beckish, but I guess internet discourse is always going to be hyperbolic).

Jan 6 - 10:52 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

No, ZDT is nothing more than shameless propaganda designed to exonerate the CIA of war crimes and to justify torture in the (supposed) 10-year manhunt for bin Laden (who I truly believe died years ago). Speaking as a someone who had a top clearance in the military, I have seen ZDT and it's one of the biggest LIES ever dumped onto the American public. Bigelow has indeed become a 21st century version of Leni Riefenstahl, and anyone who refers to ZDT as "just a movie" is like saying "boys will be boys" when it comes to covering up the military's rape culture. By the way, keep enjoying Glenn Beck, Chris; I'm well aware of the intimate relationship the Pentagon has had with Hollywood for the past 25 years. And by the way, the Government does LIE...do you know about the Gulf of Tonkin incident? We lie to go to war because we are practically controlled by the military industrial complex, as President Eisenhower warned in his closing speech to the nation. ZDT is a film Goebbels would have masturbated to.

Jan 6 - 10:54 PM

misterkyle1901

kyle T

if you did see the movie, you can't actually believe its doing the CIA any favors. I guess we can sit here and compare every movie with military protagonists to Triumph of the Will. But... Zero Dark Thirty very obviously isn't made to justify ANY war. And you know what? I'm sick of this conspiracy crap that has apparently infected every part of the political landscape. I can sit here and do as much research and critical analysis using what facts are made available, but you can have some divine knowledge that automatically voids all else... as soon as someone has a conspiracy theory, there's no point in a conversation anymore, cause' they've been granted knowledge by god or their obviously superior intelligence.

Jan 7 - 09:13 AM

Chris Eaton

Chris Eaton

Wow Mick, that was some impressive nonsense ranting.

Jan 7 - 09:59 AM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

What I think is hilarious that you say I'm a 'conspiracy theorist' and committed some 'nonsense rating' and yet you refuse to challenge in anyway. I served, I know what I'm talking about. And, yes, Kyle the movie is justifying the War on Terror, which will continue going on for years so the military industrial complex can make insane profits. ACT OF VALOR kicked off the jingoistic year of 2012, even though it was the poor man's TEAM AMERICA.

One more thing: I'm not necessarily deterring anyone from seeing ZDT. If you do watch, all I ask is that you not pay money on it. Get a ticket for TEXAS CHAINSAW 3D instead, then go into the theater.

Jan 7 - 11:04 AM

misterkyle1901

kyle T

Challenge? I said you're wrong and its not something I normally feel the need to do. If you'd like to know why you're wrong, I suggest you consult the hundred of reviews summarizing the movie, the filmmakers themselves, and the entire history of Hollywood and the Academy. I'm not saying you don't know anything about the military. I'm saying you don't know much about movies. This IS a movie website, after all. I didn't see Act of Valor because, to me, it looked like it would be militaristic and overly patriotic to the point of being silly, and the reviews confirmed this. But... The Hurt Locker was a pretty hefty movie about the psychological repercussions of war. I didn't really like it all that much, but I already know Bigelow's and Boal's anti-war sentiment generally exists as subtext as it did in that movie. Maybe you're confusing sympathy/empathy for those in the military for jingoism. Perhaps, they made a movie in an attempt to accurately portray the situation to the best of their ability hoping that the circumstantial facts would speak for themselves, and this is what you got out of it. But I can assure you that American jingoists will not be coming out in droves to see this film.

Jan 7 - 11:38 AM

Dave J

Dave J

I agree with Kyle since the makers of "Zero Dark Thirty" didn't just came up with this movie from the top of their heads, they were able to get access to unclassified material/ files unavailable to the open public, and perhaps access to the SEAL team who particapated in the assassination of Osama Bin Laden- if you aren't able to adapt to this then that's your priorgitive but to call "Zero Dark Thirty" a propoganda piece as opposed to other films that deserve this propoganda title is wrong! As for you calling out the C.I.A., do you really know what their function is as opposed to the F.B.I. because the C.I.A. has always been known to break rules for as long as films about them had been made "Three Days of The Condor" and "The Parellax View" anyone! And had you seen the Jason Bourne movies because Bourne's behavior was the result of CIA! As a matter of fact the high percentage of films about the C.I.A. portrayed in a negative light has been quite high!

Jan 7 - 12:22 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

I don't know much about movies, Kyle? I've written over 500 movie reviews, have over 300 movies in my collection, and I've seen over 75% of all theatrical films since the silent era. I've seen some of the great silents like Harold Lloyd's THE KID BROTHER to Abel Gance's 5-hour epic NAPOLEON; I've watched everything from GONE WITH THE WIND TO SWEET SWEETBACK'S BAADASSSSS SONG. As for the hundred of reviews summarizing the movie they are all from movie critics GETTING PAID and have no idea what the relationship is between the Pentagon and the Hollywood; they are not questioning anything about ZDT, but in fact accepting as official history. This is what propaganda does, it brainwashes people into thinking what they are seeing is the truth. THE HURT LOCKER was a good movie but Boal didn't necessarily have an anti-war sentiment; in fact, he was working with an Army mobile unit during shooting and his ENTIRE screenplay for ZDT was rewritten once the Pentagon got involved. If you want to see a GREAT movie about the psychological repercussions of war, then you should watch my vote for the Great American Movie: THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES. By the way: as someone who served, I'm not going to listen to a bunch of PAID MOVIE CRITICS who have never served, have no idea how the Pentagon operates and are proclaiming ZDT the #1 film of the year while largely ignoring THE INVISIBLE WAR, which shows the rape culture that the Pentagon has covered up for seven decades. Again, I ask: how can you believe anything from the Pentagon or the CIA after this massive cover-up of sexual assault in all branches of the military? And, no Dave, it wasn't unclassified it was SECRET material which ordinary citizens had attempted to access and they were blocked even under the FOI Act. Plus, you really believe the myth that Navy SEAL team 6 found bin Laden, when he has most likely been dead for years. Too bad most of the SEAL team members died in that mysterious helicopter crash only a few months after bin Laden was supposedly killed and "buried at sea" (what a crock!) with no witnesses, no visual evidence, nothing. Keep drinking the kool-aid, brother, hope it taste good!

Jan 7 - 12:47 PM

infernaldude

Infernal Dude

The problem with your argument Mick is that for a conspiracy like that to work, hundreds if not thousands of individuals would need to be involved (including people who are not on our side). This would make it nearly impossible to keep a secret like this under wraps.

Jan 7 - 01:06 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

"According to a recent article in the Washington Post, there are now 854,000 American citizens with Top Secret clearances. The number of new secrets rose 75 percent between 1996 and 2009, and the number of documents using those secrets went from 5.6 million in 1996 to 54.6 million last year. There are an astounding 16 million documents being classified Top Secret by our government every year! Today, pretty much everything the government does is presumed secret. Isn't it time we asked ourselves whether this is really necessary for the conduct of foreign affairs or the internal operation of governments? Doesn't secrecy actually protect the favored classes and allow them to continue to help themselves at the expense of the rest of us? Isn't this a cancer growing on democracy?" --- Gov. Jesse Ventura, former NAVY SEAL

Jan 7 - 01:15 PM

Dave J

Dave J

Again, because you were not "one" of the people who particapated in the assassination of Bin Laden, and that your sources completley contradicts in terms of Zero Dark thirty, you can't either deny nor confirm about how Bin Laden was killed? Because I'm sure on some Fox news pungent, they would make claims that Bin Laden wasn't killed by the SEALS since they're anti-Democrat whereas most other neautral news stations say other wise! I mean can "you" yourself prove to me that he's been dead years before SEAL team 6 got to him which by the way is an insult to the SEALs that claimed killed him because (one of them even took a snapshot of him which this SEALs person wasn't even allowed to do) they were there and you were not so you really don't have a case!

And of course you're completly wrong about Boal for he was a war jounalist before becoming a script writer for Bigelow!

Oh and by the way no SEALs were ever in that exploding helicopter for once it crash landed, they were again were able to grab their things before being picked up by another chopter! Again can you prove that some SELS were killed in the explosion when you were not there! If you were not actually their then you don't have a case!

Jan 7 - 01:39 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

Now, let's try this one more time: Powerful Nationalism, Disdain for Human Rights, Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Case, Military Supremacy, Rampant Sexism, CONTROLLED MASS MEDIA, Obsession with National Security, Religion & Government Intertwined, Protected Corporate Power, Suppressed Labor Power, Disdain for Intellectuals & Arts, Obsession with Crime & Punishment, Rampant Cronyism & Corruption, Fraudulent Elections.

What are all these characteristics of?

Jan 7 - 02:09 PM

Dave J

Dave J

I think I can see what your problem is and that is generalizing and then chosing to become a skeptic since you yourself can't be "everywhere" at once and may have to take someone's word for it! And as I've said before, if it wasn't for the media demanding to know what kind of torture tactics were used, otherwise the open public which can be yourself would not have demanded Guantanamo Bay to be shut down as one of the promises to get a vote because President Obama did promised to have the place shut down!

Let me put it to you this way, how did you know about it? If it wasn't for social media which could've be also be youself doing the reporting you wouldn't have known about it either! Had you ever been to "Guant... Bay" then if you're that curious about that place so much doubting what went on then go there yourself and then come back to see if it's not nothing what's already been reported!

If you were President, do you actually think it's that easy to control the media when it made former Presidents such as as Nixon for the Watergate scandal, and Clinton for cheating with Monica Lewinsky to step down? And as I recall the constitution defends the media- did you see "All The President's Men"?

Jan 7 - 03:04 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Allow me to jump in here. Mick, what was your rate in the military? You said you did 7 years which means max you were a junior E-6 which you should realize means you didn't know much at all in the big picture of what goes on in the govt. Certainly not enough to make your claim that Bin Laden died years ago anything more than the basest conspiracy theory. As for ZDT specifically your claims on that are equally ridiculous, just because a movie is made based on things that really happened doesn't mean it's trying to pass itself off as the absolute truth, anyone knows that. Do we really believe L.A. Confidential is a true story of life in 1950's Hollywood just because Mickey Cohen was a real guy. Do we actually believe there was a guy named Bud White and all those events happened? Obviously not, it's a movie that tries to make insights into the human condition based on fictional storytelling. In the words of V for Vendetta "artists use lies to tell the truth". For every claim that ZDT glamorizes torture I've heard one that condemns it for the very same thing. Just because someone disagrees with your particular view on something doesn't make them a Nazi or involved in some grand Bondien conspiracy to control the world. The value of torture is a very complex issue. One that I happen to agree with you on, that it has no place in military operations, but I can also sympathize with people who are tempted to use it because in certain situations it invariably gets results. I just tend to agree with people like John McCain who've experienced it who say the long term moral decay doesn't outweigh the short term tactical gains. Now, to the portion of your initial post that really offends me as a military member about the military's "rape culture". I think there are about 50,000 innocent military personnel in Japan and the Pacific who would strongly disagree with you that the military is pro-rape or willing to gloss over the topic. Those 50,000 personnel are not allowed to drink after 10 PM and not allowed to leave their base or houses after 11 PM because of a single rape that happened in Okinawa, Japan. Name another organization that would take actions like that in the US and how can you say an organization that would take those actions is not serious about putting an end to it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying rape doesn't happen in the military, we are nothing if not a smaller reflection of our society as a whole or even that rape doesn't happen at a higher rate in the military. I'm just willing to accept the possibility that this happens more because men and women are thrust into environments where they're denied sex (ships, combat zones, etc) with much higher stress than your average civilian has to deal with rather than some grand focused effort by the military industrial complex to encourage rape amongst its members. If that makes me a zealot or a baby killer or a rapist in your eyes, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. As a former military member you should understand that better than anyone and understand that you have that right because of the millions of men and women like myself who your deride with your generalities and wide sweeping conspiracies.

Jan 7 - 03:52 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

I meant the long term moral decay outweighs the short term tactical gain, obviously.

Jan 7 - 03:54 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Oh yeah, and that Jesse Ventura quote...from a show called "Conspiracy Theories with Jesse Ventura". Nuff Said.

Jan 7 - 04:00 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

OMFG! LA CONFIDENTIAL is a based on a novel--fiction--you stupid nerf! I was a Navy LT stationed in Quantico, that's O-3 to you. Your entire "argument" here is laughable and completely stupid; just write everything off as a "conspiracy theory" and call it a day. We have a word for people like you: SHEEP! You obviously didn't see THE INVISIBLE WAR, either, it's pretty damning: the military IS a rape culture. In December 2011, a military court ruled rape AN OCCUPATIONAL HAZARD OF MILITARY SERVICE. When you add on top the PSA's telling men to "Ask her when she's sober!" and none of these criminals going on a sex offender list when leaving the military, that is a rape culture. The Pentagon has PROTECTING all of these rapists from maximum punishments while the survivors are now dealing with PTSD and MST. Don't try to pretend that the military isn't a rape culture, because IT IS!

Jan 7 - 04:42 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

And Jesse Ventura is a former NAVY SEAL and I will believe his word over yours any day of the week!

Jan 7 - 04:44 PM

Dave J

Dave J

That's funny you should say that too because I just saw Jesse Ventura on Piers Morgon Live the other day and he too also believed that Bin Laden was taken out by SEAL team 6!

Jan 7 - 04:59 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

Wrong again, Bob! I know exactly what interview you are talking about and all Jesse said was, "I don't have a problem with the book" written about the Seal Team 6's raid that (supposedly) killed bin Laden. He then says they have their first amendment rights to publish the book, he never said anything remotely close to that he believes Seal team 6 killed bin Laden. Sorry, Dave, put in another quarter and try again!

Jan 7 - 05:20 PM

Dave J

Dave J

Well, let me put it to you this way, if Piers Morgon ever "suspected" that Jesse Ventura whose an admitted SEAL himself said "I don't believe he was killed by SEAL team six". Piers would've questioned him about it and he did not have to- does this make any sense? Wouldn't Jesse stand up and say that "I myself don't think the SEALs ever killed Bin Laden!" because Jesse unlike you has no doubts he was killed by them? You have doubts about SEALS taking out Bin Laden when you yourself were never there is like saying Jesse never did any missions since there were no pictures! Were their any pictures when you down there 24/7 as well as all the other soldiers?

Jan 7 - 05:43 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

BTW Jesse was never a Navy SEAL, he worked in EOD. I too have worked with SEAL teams in my time. The difference, I was never punched out by an actual SEAL for my crazy conspiracy theory views. Specifically saying that Navy SEALS deserved to die.

Jan 7 - 05:49 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

I just find it interesting that you'll take the word of one guy who you thought was a Navy SEAL in Jesse Venture, but won't take the opinion of an entire team of them that they killed Osama Bin Laden. It's an interesting contradiction to me.

Jan 7 - 06:20 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Lastly, and then I'm done. You accuse us all of being sheep then call us all names and deride us when we question YOU. Irony, love it.

Jan 7 - 06:31 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

Hey Big Brother: Kirby Dick's THE INVISIBLE WAR just became the #1 film of 2012 according to Rotten Tomatoes. All of the facts are taken from actual studies from the Department of Defense. Watch it and then we can continue this conversation; otherwise, I'm done with you!

Jan 8 - 01:48 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

I'll watch the movie, but you understand by taking that tack you're basically saying you can judge the entire 9/11 situation by watching Michael Moore's "documentary" on it. A two hour movie based on the testimony of 8 victims vs 17 years of first hand experience. Keep holding to your belief though and not answering any of the questions that contradict you. I honestly hope this is one hell of a movie to justify some of the arguments you've made. Until then.

Jan 8 - 03:39 PM

misterkyle1901

kyle T

Woah at your movie watching credentials! What I was actually trying to say there was that this was a discussion of film and not of the military to ensure that I wouldn't insult your intelligence on that matter. But I stand by it. All I have to go on here is what you've posted here today, and what you've posted here today have been insulting to the common moviegoer (which is actually not necessarily a bad thing on this website, but you did it for the wrong reasons--you can insult their inability to demand better but don't assume that everyone's a moron who will believe everything they see in the movie), and a misconception that most people who've seen the film will not agree with. If we're speaking in terms of conspiracies, Hollywood is mostly liberal. A Pro-war movie is not going to gain this much traction in this day and age. That's just fact. I don't know how long you've been visiting this site, but we've had discussions on that matter. Also, why would critics tell everyone that the movie isn't pro-war when it is? What would that accomplish? The movie is very obviously considered high-brow, something that liberals are more attracted to. They're not going to be duped into seeing a pro-war film and suddenly change their minds. They're going to be pissed. There's no logic there.
And those same critics gave The Invisible War a hundred percent.
This is kind of what I meant by "conspiracy" earlier. If your proof rests on "cause' I know," its not gonna be a good discussion.
I just want you to rest easy knowing that no matter how many times someone calls the movie "realistic" or "detailed oriented" or whatever (the same things were said about the Bourne movies too), no one is going to honestly believe this is the truth. Most of us know that there is plenty classified information that will not be a part of any movie with a title and release date.
Side note, the movie was written and they began shooting before Osama Bin Laden was killed. I do think a lot of what transpired prior would not have this sort of vindication behind it.
Perhaps, when you say "propaganda," I hear "someone evil attempting to control people" and that gets me. With regards to the movie, I don't think anyone is evil here or doing anything vindictive.

Jan 7 - 01:29 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

There is no logic in the liberal-conservative war, period; hell, I don't even like people who play either of those cards because all it does is say there are sides of the argument without thinking outside the box. Plus, when did I "insult" the common moviegoer? By calling them sheep? Uh, lol, okay...there are a lot of ignorant sheep in this country; why do you think Honey Boo Boo is always hot news? In fact, that's why I recommended people to NOT PAY to see it. I NEVER ASSUMED THAT EVERYONE IN THIS COUNTRY WHO GOES TO SEE ZDT IS A MORON; A LOT OF THEM WILL TAKE EVERYTHING AS FACT BECAUSE OF THOSE DANGEROUS WORDS: "This film is based on actual events and first-hand witness accounts." Yeah, all from the fucking CIA! I insulted the critics, because they are not questioning its ethics, morals, or facts in any way shape or form. If ZDT wasn't getting all this critical praise and Oscar buzz, I wouldn't be as defensive as I am regarding the movie. Now, I've read all the critics' bullshit, how about you read this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/04/letter-kathryn-bigelow-zero-dark-thirty. As far as confirming or denying when bin Laden, who knows when the piece of shit was killed and, quite frankly, who cares? We have hundreds of more important issues we as Americans have to worry about but no, we have to celebrate our victory of "finding and killing" bin Laden and justifying our illegal acts of torture while also ignoring the real problems with this country. By the way, THE INVISIBLE WAR was reviewed by 47 critics, while ZDT is going to end up with over 300, and that is just on RT alone. Many top-10 lists have ZDT but not THE INVISIBLE WAR and to me I think that's downright sickening, because we are giving credence to an organization that covered-up a rape culture in the military seven decades. (PS, none of the questions I posed here you have been able to give me an adequate answer, particularly that one!). What also makes me angry is the fact that Boal was given classified access in the first place: he's a fucking screenwriter!!! Am I really the only one who finds this disturbing? "With regards to the movie, I don't think anyone is evil here or doing anything vindictive." It's pretty weird you are saying this when the film is about torture, which is illegal. Disdain for human rights, one of the core fundamentals of fascism.

Jan 7 - 01:55 PM

Dave J

Dave J

I'm just curious about something, if you're not a big fan of Boal who was a "war" jounalist of the Iraq and perhaps Afganistan war btw, and if you already know what to expect from "Zero Dark Thirty", why did you go and watch it then? So that you can 'slam' it some more! What makes your claim that "Zero Dark Thirty" is nothing more than a propoganda piece when it states what happened in accordance to one or two people who were involved in the killing of Bin Laden? And let's make some thing clear here, the "Invisible War" is about someone else and not about the assassination of Osama Bin Laden, am I correct about that? Because every soldier has his own story to tell since s/he can't be everywhere at once, right!

And before you scorn on the lack of movie critics seeing the "Invisble War" you know how the film industry works, right! Because the reason "Zero Dark Thirty" are getting more screens is because it's being picked up by a bigger distributer since Bigelow won Oscars on her previous film "The Hurt Locker" which that film was in the exact same situation, had the comp. of the The Hurt Locker had not be pre-screening it to movie critics, they would not have been able to watch it either! Now, if you have so much passion for "The Invisble War" which I know is a great war film as well, then put some of your own money into it so that other people- not just the movie critics can also see it too!

Jan 7 - 03:26 PM

Dave J

Dave J

First you're offended by Mark Boal's tactics to get the information that he did, and then you paid dollars to go and see it "can" also be interpreted that you're also condoning what he did if you already knew about what Boal did?

Jan 7 - 03:26 PM

misterkyle1901

kyle T

I found it disappointing when so many people thought that Osama Bin Laden's death was worth celebrating. I think you're failing to notice that we seem to agree on most things... maybe I have more faith in people than you do. I said, "with regards to the movie" for a reason. I think its a misstep that the direction would even imply that torture got us anywhere. But if you're someone, like me, who thinks torture is something wholly evil, than I don't think its a leap to say, at the end of the film, "well, we sacrificed our core principles trying to kill this one man" and ask if it was worth it. Which is exactly how I felt when everyone was celebrating. PEOPLE generally do not see low budget, well reviewed movies. Its not something made for the masses looking for easy consumption, its for people who want to be challenged and to sit down and have a discussion afterwards. I guess no matter what, we come back to "Its just a movie." But thats what it is. But the words "just" or "only" are unnecessary. Its art, and as such, we need to have discussions like these. We never would have had it if it wasn't for the movie. People have been looking back at the event as some high point and nothing else, and have moved on..
By the way, reviewers review the movies that are sent to them, especially if there's been no theatrical release--if you have a problem with the low number of reviews, take it up with the distributers of the film.

Jan 7 - 03:32 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

Dave: I didn't pay a dime to see ZDT, that's the difference between you and me. And to be honest, I purchased copies of THE INVISIBLE WAR and sent them to all the friends I have in the service including my childhood (female) friend. See the great irony, is that THE INVISIBLE WAR is a film that is about human rights, not just about a mass government coverup. ZDT is about the disdain for human rights and is made entirely for money and propaganda purposes. I can't believe I'm the only one seeing this. Whatever, go see the movie first and then I will look forward to your opinion. Just pay to see another one, that's all, that's my recommendation.

Jan 7 - 03:56 PM

Dave J

Dave J

Okay then, let me reavaulate what I've said then, even though you agree that both have diferent themes whereas "Invisible War" is a documentary about 'rape in the military' and "Zero Dark Thirty" is a movie about the 'assassination of Bin Laden' who was responsible for more than 3,000 innocent civilians, that you aren't able to "differentiate" nor adapt the two as being completely different movies since they're both about the war in Afganistan and Iraq anyway, even though "rape" never occurred during the capture and killing of Bin Laden, would that be a fair assessment?

And I just want to say one more thing, that I myself can enjoy both films(Invisible War/ Zero Dark Thirty) "equallly" without discriminating one from the other or in better words will not link "all" or every war film ever made including documentaries as being as one! As I thought "Platoon", "Full Metal Jacket" and the "Casualties of War" among other films all consists including the documentary "Heart Of Darkness" to have different themes with each other and "not" related to one another except that they all take place in Vietnam!

And tell me something is the "Invisible War" in your opinion "should" be the only one to see about Iraq/ Afganistan even though they're many others to watch as well such as "Jar Head", "Restrepo" and "Green Zone" because there's no such thing, right because every soldier fighting in uniform has his own story to tell!

Jan 7 - 04:56 PM

Dave J

Dave J

Did rape occurred when you were serving down there, and how come you or your other regimen didn't report it? And it's naive to assume that rape happends all the time even though you yourself didn't see anything too? Meaning that you believed in the "sensationism" from the documentary only that it may have stopped when you served at that particular time when you were serving down there or in most places in Iraq/ Afganistan- would that be a fair statement!

Jan 7 - 05:36 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Also we haven't adequately answered the question about "why rape culture was covered up for 70 years" because you've yet to offer fact one as to how there is a huge coverup of rape culture beyond stating it vehemently and throwing around personal anecdotes to support you. It's like the question "Did it feel good to have sex with your brother, yes or no?" Also, at no point have you disputed the facts of what the military does to discourage rape and sexual assault except to scream about the existance of a rape culture. I'm sorry if this upsets you, but in life people are going to contest your idea's. Especially on Rotten Tomatoes. If you don't like disagreement you came to the wrong place.

Jan 7 - 06:41 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

OMG I was just using LA Confidential as an example it applies to all movies. Bigelow has been very clear that it's not a work of pure fact. Use Men of Honor then if you need a better example. It's based on real events and makes the same claims as ZDT, but tons of that movie are dramatized to make it a better movie. Yes, make light of my arguments while just calling people names and writing their opinions off as sheep. Even as an O3/LT you still know two things, jack and shit. Because for at least 6 of those years your were an Ensign and a LTJG. Even at a LT you should have been doing two things fetching a CDR or CAPT his coffee and doing exactly what your Chief told you to do to avoid embarrassing yourself like you're doing now. Rape is a hazard for the reasons I gave. Put 5,000 men and women is something the 300 yards long and then send them out to sea for 6 months with minimal port visits and you're gonna have a few cases of rape regardless of who they are. That's just common sense. Also telling people to be smart "Ask her if she's sober" doesn't condone rape. It condones being smart about your drinking and sexual habits. They tell girls the exact same thing which when you think about it and if you want to get offended is way more insulting to us men in the military. BTW I've never seen a PSA that said it in the terms you put it out in. The only reason I don't question the validity of the argument at all is because I've heard it said at GMT's, said it myself in the terms I stated. I don't know about your claims about sex offender lists, but I have seen or had personal knowledge of in 17 years no less than 7 individuals who were sentenced to prison time at govt prisons for rape and sexual assault. You can keep yelling about rape culture all you want I'm obviously not going to change your mind, but you can't deny the facts that the military provides training to all individuals making them knowledgable about sexual assault and rape and how to avoid it, prosecutes the individuals guilty of it and provides counselling via the Chaplain's office, medical services, fleet and family, base psychologists and myriad other services for the victims during and after an assault. What exactly do you want them to do. How do civilians do anything different and how are non-military rape victims PTSD any different? BTW CPO with 17+ years of service, have been a CPO for 10 of those years and have never raped anyone if that helps give my opinion credence.

Jan 7 - 05:41 PM

infernaldude

Infernal Dude

Damn, what'd I miss!?

Jan 8 - 01:09 AM

Janson Jinnistan

Janson Jinnistan

C+uckers

Jan 6 - 04:26 PM

Matthew R.

Matthew Reimer

Whats Triumph Of The Will Part 2 and Zero Dark Thirty comes out in wide release next week and a lot of people are going to see it so that's most likely to win the box office.

Jan 6 - 04:36 PM

Matthew R.

Matthew Reimer

Surprised that Texas Chainsaw won. I thought Django Unchained or The Hobbit was going to win...

Jan 6 - 04:37 PM

This comment has been removed.

Lance Hammond

Lance Hammond

actually, the consensus was saying it was a bold move for a franchise to make a ugly and cynical release of one, with no real reason to carry on the story as it had.

Jan 7 - 12:03 AM

Jaxx Raxor

Adam Jones

I'm flabbergasted Chainsaw 3D won the weekend. I guess the college kids really wanted to seem some slasher action. It seems that January 2013 will be a good time for Hollywood. Gangster Squad should be a near lock for #1 next weekend.

Jan 6 - 04:57 PM

infernaldude

Infernal Dude

Kids like horror movies. Plus, the 3D ticket price helped.

I'm a little skeptical about Gangster Squad. IMO, it has a similar look to '96s Mulholland Falls which ended up being big letdown.

Jan 6 - 05:44 PM

Matthew R.

Matthew Reimer

I agree, with Zero Dark Thirty coming out in wide release in the prime time of award season, that's most likely to win. I didn't even know that Gangster Squad was opening up this Friday. Plus, I think many people are feeling uncomfortable with it because the whole reason on why the movie was edited and bumped up was because of the Aurora shooting.

Jan 6 - 06:01 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Except the Lesbian scene. That exceeded all expectations.

Jan 6 - 06:50 PM

Daniel Robert

Daniel Robert

That was Mullholland Drive, not Mullholland Falls.

Jan 6 - 08:06 PM

infernaldude

Infernal Dude

No, the film I'm referring to is Mulholland Falls starring Nick Nolte. The film you're referring to stars Naomi Watts and is a VERY different film.

Jan 7 - 12:32 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

My bad, easy mistake to make I think. I withdraw my comment...unless we want to talk about that scene some more, and let's be honest, why wouldn't we? :)

Jan 7 - 03:58 PM

infernaldude

Infernal Dude

Don't get me wrong. I loves me some Mulholland Drive. Loves me some Naomi Watts, too. Has no one seen Mulholland Falls? Such a spectacular failure. Treat Williams was terrible in it.

Jan 7 - 10:43 PM

Dean Wirth

Dean Wirth

I'm going to see it tonight -Horror Rules!!

Jan 7 - 08:10 AM

Andrew Brinkerhoff

Andrew Brinkerhoff

Finally saw Django yesterday; thought it was going to be an overhyped waste of time (never seen a Tarantino film before this), but it was surprisingly enjoyable and made my Top 10 films of 2012. I can easily pass on "Texas Chainsaw".

Jan 6 - 05:00 PM

Premo Beat

John Noto

There's a reason Tarantino films are hyped jackass, it's because he makes great movies with such consistency that fans naturally develop seemingly unreasonable expectations for each of his projects

Jan 7 - 10:28 AM

Ol' Bluegrass

Ol' Bluegrass

Texas Chainsaw for the win!

Jan 6 - 05:02 PM

This comment has been removed.

Andrew Korkmas

Andrew Korkmas

I didn't dislike Cabin in the Woods because I felt it was too intelligent, I disliked it because it had a plethora of flaws and just wasn't enjoyable (one of my friends felt the same). I liked Texas Chainsaw because it was fun and actually a little clever for a horror movie, though it too was not perfect. Before you go and criticize movies and the people who like them because you're butt-hurt that your favorite movies were dethroned at the box office, maybe you should grow up.

Jan 6 - 09:35 PM

Kriftonucci

Jim Ylonen

Said the pussy who deleted his account, lol.

Jan 6 - 10:49 PM

Premo Beat

John Noto

I saw TCM, exactly what about it was clever? I enjoyed the carnage/T&A but the plot was paper thin and upon reflection quite absurd, with no smart dialogue and amateurish production overall.

Jan 7 - 10:33 AM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Never heard of it, so I'm doubting "a lot" of people are going to waste money on it. Educate us, what's it about? and what's so offensive about it.

Jan 6 - 05:38 PM

Chris Bland

Chris Bland

"Triumph of the Will" is a 1930s Nazi propaganda film directed by Leni Riefenstahl. My guess is that Mick Travis is calling some film he doesn't like "Triumph of the Will II", because as intellectual luminaries like Glenn Beck have proven time and time again, baselessly linking something that you don't like to the Nazis is the absolutely fairest way to criticize and open a meaning dialogue‚?¶

Jan 6 - 09:10 PM

Chris Bland

Chris Bland

See, was that so hard. Now, instead of some oblique reference to Triumph of the Will, we now know unambiguously that you really dislike Zero Dark Thirty and why you dislike it. BTW, referring to Glenn Beck as a "intellectual luminary" was sarcasm (was that not obvious?), in actuality I feel that Mr. Beck is an ass-clown. Which is precisely why I hate to see others stooping to use his favorite rhetorical device (i.e. everything I don‚??t like is linked to the Nazis!), rather than just impugning something outright (although your rape comment and the bit about Goebbels masturbating to ZDT was kind of Glenn Beckish, but I guess internet discourse is always going to be hyperbolic).

Jan 6 - 10:52 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

No, ZDT is nothing more than shameless propaganda designed to exonerate the CIA of war crimes and to justify torture in the (supposed) 10-year manhunt for bin Laden (who I truly believe died years ago). Speaking as a someone who had a top clearance in the military, I have seen ZDT and it's one of the biggest LIES ever dumped onto the American public. Bigelow has indeed become a 21st century version of Leni Riefenstahl, and anyone who refers to ZDT as "just a movie" is like saying "boys will be boys" when it comes to covering up the military's rape culture. By the way, keep enjoying Glenn Beck, Chris; I'm well aware of the intimate relationship the Pentagon has had with Hollywood for the past 25 years. And by the way, the Government does LIE...do you know about the Gulf of Tonkin incident? We lie to go to war because we are practically controlled by the military industrial complex, as President Eisenhower warned in his closing speech to the nation. ZDT is a film Goebbels would have masturbated to.

Jan 6 - 10:54 PM

misterkyle1901

kyle T

if you did see the movie, you can't actually believe its doing the CIA any favors. I guess we can sit here and compare every movie with military protagonists to Triumph of the Will. But... Zero Dark Thirty very obviously isn't made to justify ANY war. And you know what? I'm sick of this conspiracy crap that has apparently infected every part of the political landscape. I can sit here and do as much research and critical analysis using what facts are made available, but you can have some divine knowledge that automatically voids all else... as soon as someone has a conspiracy theory, there's no point in a conversation anymore, cause' they've been granted knowledge by god or their obviously superior intelligence.

Jan 7 - 09:13 AM

Chris Eaton

Chris Eaton

Wow Mick, that was some impressive nonsense ranting.

Jan 7 - 09:59 AM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

What I think is hilarious that you say I'm a 'conspiracy theorist' and committed some 'nonsense rating' and yet you refuse to challenge in anyway. I served, I know what I'm talking about. And, yes, Kyle the movie is justifying the War on Terror, which will continue going on for years so the military industrial complex can make insane profits. ACT OF VALOR kicked off the jingoistic year of 2012, even though it was the poor man's TEAM AMERICA.

One more thing: I'm not necessarily deterring anyone from seeing ZDT. If you do watch, all I ask is that you not pay money on it. Get a ticket for TEXAS CHAINSAW 3D instead, then go into the theater.

Jan 7 - 11:04 AM

misterkyle1901

kyle T

Challenge? I said you're wrong and its not something I normally feel the need to do. If you'd like to know why you're wrong, I suggest you consult the hundred of reviews summarizing the movie, the filmmakers themselves, and the entire history of Hollywood and the Academy. I'm not saying you don't know anything about the military. I'm saying you don't know much about movies. This IS a movie website, after all. I didn't see Act of Valor because, to me, it looked like it would be militaristic and overly patriotic to the point of being silly, and the reviews confirmed this. But... The Hurt Locker was a pretty hefty movie about the psychological repercussions of war. I didn't really like it all that much, but I already know Bigelow's and Boal's anti-war sentiment generally exists as subtext as it did in that movie. Maybe you're confusing sympathy/empathy for those in the military for jingoism. Perhaps, they made a movie in an attempt to accurately portray the situation to the best of their ability hoping that the circumstantial facts would speak for themselves, and this is what you got out of it. But I can assure you that American jingoists will not be coming out in droves to see this film.

Jan 7 - 11:38 AM

Dave J

Dave J

I agree with Kyle since the makers of "Zero Dark Thirty" didn't just came up with this movie from the top of their heads, they were able to get access to unclassified material/ files unavailable to the open public, and perhaps access to the SEAL team who particapated in the assassination of Osama Bin Laden- if you aren't able to adapt to this then that's your priorgitive but to call "Zero Dark Thirty" a propoganda piece as opposed to other films that deserve this propoganda title is wrong! As for you calling out the C.I.A., do you really know what their function is as opposed to the F.B.I. because the C.I.A. has always been known to break rules for as long as films about them had been made "Three Days of The Condor" and "The Parellax View" anyone! And had you seen the Jason Bourne movies because Bourne's behavior was the result of CIA! As a matter of fact the high percentage of films about the C.I.A. portrayed in a negative light has been quite high!

Jan 7 - 12:22 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

I don't know much about movies, Kyle? I've written over 500 movie reviews, have over 300 movies in my collection, and I've seen over 75% of all theatrical films since the silent era. I've seen some of the great silents like Harold Lloyd's THE KID BROTHER to Abel Gance's 5-hour epic NAPOLEON; I've watched everything from GONE WITH THE WIND TO SWEET SWEETBACK'S BAADASSSSS SONG. As for the hundred of reviews summarizing the movie they are all from movie critics GETTING PAID and have no idea what the relationship is between the Pentagon and the Hollywood; they are not questioning anything about ZDT, but in fact accepting as official history. This is what propaganda does, it brainwashes people into thinking what they are seeing is the truth. THE HURT LOCKER was a good movie but Boal didn't necessarily have an anti-war sentiment; in fact, he was working with an Army mobile unit during shooting and his ENTIRE screenplay for ZDT was rewritten once the Pentagon got involved. If you want to see a GREAT movie about the psychological repercussions of war, then you should watch my vote for the Great American Movie: THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES. By the way: as someone who served, I'm not going to listen to a bunch of PAID MOVIE CRITICS who have never served, have no idea how the Pentagon operates and are proclaiming ZDT the #1 film of the year while largely ignoring THE INVISIBLE WAR, which shows the rape culture that the Pentagon has covered up for seven decades. Again, I ask: how can you believe anything from the Pentagon or the CIA after this massive cover-up of sexual assault in all branches of the military? And, no Dave, it wasn't unclassified it was SECRET material which ordinary citizens had attempted to access and they were blocked even under the FOI Act. Plus, you really believe the myth that Navy SEAL team 6 found bin Laden, when he has most likely been dead for years. Too bad most of the SEAL team members died in that mysterious helicopter crash only a few months after bin Laden was supposedly killed and "buried at sea" (what a crock!) with no witnesses, no visual evidence, nothing. Keep drinking the kool-aid, brother, hope it taste good!

Jan 7 - 12:47 PM

infernaldude

Infernal Dude

The problem with your argument Mick is that for a conspiracy like that to work, hundreds if not thousands of individuals would need to be involved (including people who are not on our side). This would make it nearly impossible to keep a secret like this under wraps.

Jan 7 - 01:06 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

"According to a recent article in the Washington Post, there are now 854,000 American citizens with Top Secret clearances. The number of new secrets rose 75 percent between 1996 and 2009, and the number of documents using those secrets went from 5.6 million in 1996 to 54.6 million last year. There are an astounding 16 million documents being classified Top Secret by our government every year! Today, pretty much everything the government does is presumed secret. Isn't it time we asked ourselves whether this is really necessary for the conduct of foreign affairs or the internal operation of governments? Doesn't secrecy actually protect the favored classes and allow them to continue to help themselves at the expense of the rest of us? Isn't this a cancer growing on democracy?" --- Gov. Jesse Ventura, former NAVY SEAL

Jan 7 - 01:15 PM

Dave J

Dave J

Again, because you were not "one" of the people who particapated in the assassination of Bin Laden, and that your sources completley contradicts in terms of Zero Dark thirty, you can't either deny nor confirm about how Bin Laden was killed? Because I'm sure on some Fox news pungent, they would make claims that Bin Laden wasn't killed by the SEALS since they're anti-Democrat whereas most other neautral news stations say other wise! I mean can "you" yourself prove to me that he's been dead years before SEAL team 6 got to him which by the way is an insult to the SEALs that claimed killed him because (one of them even took a snapshot of him which this SEALs person wasn't even allowed to do) they were there and you were not so you really don't have a case!

And of course you're completly wrong about Boal for he was a war jounalist before becoming a script writer for Bigelow!

Oh and by the way no SEALs were ever in that exploding helicopter for once it crash landed, they were again were able to grab their things before being picked up by another chopter! Again can you prove that some SELS were killed in the explosion when you were not there! If you were not actually their then you don't have a case!

Jan 7 - 01:39 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

Now, let's try this one more time: Powerful Nationalism, Disdain for Human Rights, Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Case, Military Supremacy, Rampant Sexism, CONTROLLED MASS MEDIA, Obsession with National Security, Religion & Government Intertwined, Protected Corporate Power, Suppressed Labor Power, Disdain for Intellectuals & Arts, Obsession with Crime & Punishment, Rampant Cronyism & Corruption, Fraudulent Elections.

What are all these characteristics of?

Jan 7 - 02:09 PM

Dave J

Dave J

I think I can see what your problem is and that is generalizing and then chosing to become a skeptic since you yourself can't be "everywhere" at once and may have to take someone's word for it! And as I've said before, if it wasn't for the media demanding to know what kind of torture tactics were used, otherwise the open public which can be yourself would not have demanded Guantanamo Bay to be shut down as one of the promises to get a vote because President Obama did promised to have the place shut down!

Let me put it to you this way, how did you know about it? If it wasn't for social media which could've be also be youself doing the reporting you wouldn't have known about it either! Had you ever been to "Guant... Bay" then if you're that curious about that place so much doubting what went on then go there yourself and then come back to see if it's not nothing what's already been reported!

If you were President, do you actually think it's that easy to control the media when it made former Presidents such as as Nixon for the Watergate scandal, and Clinton for cheating with Monica Lewinsky to step down? And as I recall the constitution defends the media- did you see "All The President's Men"?

Jan 7 - 03:04 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Allow me to jump in here. Mick, what was your rate in the military? You said you did 7 years which means max you were a junior E-6 which you should realize means you didn't know much at all in the big picture of what goes on in the govt. Certainly not enough to make your claim that Bin Laden died years ago anything more than the basest conspiracy theory. As for ZDT specifically your claims on that are equally ridiculous, just because a movie is made based on things that really happened doesn't mean it's trying to pass itself off as the absolute truth, anyone knows that. Do we really believe L.A. Confidential is a true story of life in 1950's Hollywood just because Mickey Cohen was a real guy. Do we actually believe there was a guy named Bud White and all those events happened? Obviously not, it's a movie that tries to make insights into the human condition based on fictional storytelling. In the words of V for Vendetta "artists use lies to tell the truth". For every claim that ZDT glamorizes torture I've heard one that condemns it for the very same thing. Just because someone disagrees with your particular view on something doesn't make them a Nazi or involved in some grand Bondien conspiracy to control the world. The value of torture is a very complex issue. One that I happen to agree with you on, that it has no place in military operations, but I can also sympathize with people who are tempted to use it because in certain situations it invariably gets results. I just tend to agree with people like John McCain who've experienced it who say the long term moral decay doesn't outweigh the short term tactical gains. Now, to the portion of your initial post that really offends me as a military member about the military's "rape culture". I think there are about 50,000 innocent military personnel in Japan and the Pacific who would strongly disagree with you that the military is pro-rape or willing to gloss over the topic. Those 50,000 personnel are not allowed to drink after 10 PM and not allowed to leave their base or houses after 11 PM because of a single rape that happened in Okinawa, Japan. Name another organization that would take actions like that in the US and how can you say an organization that would take those actions is not serious about putting an end to it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying rape doesn't happen in the military, we are nothing if not a smaller reflection of our society as a whole or even that rape doesn't happen at a higher rate in the military. I'm just willing to accept the possibility that this happens more because men and women are thrust into environments where they're denied sex (ships, combat zones, etc) with much higher stress than your average civilian has to deal with rather than some grand focused effort by the military industrial complex to encourage rape amongst its members. If that makes me a zealot or a baby killer or a rapist in your eyes, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. As a former military member you should understand that better than anyone and understand that you have that right because of the millions of men and women like myself who your deride with your generalities and wide sweeping conspiracies.

Jan 7 - 03:52 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

I meant the long term moral decay outweighs the short term tactical gain, obviously.

Jan 7 - 03:54 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Oh yeah, and that Jesse Ventura quote...from a show called "Conspiracy Theories with Jesse Ventura". Nuff Said.

Jan 7 - 04:00 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

OMFG! LA CONFIDENTIAL is a based on a novel--fiction--you stupid nerf! I was a Navy LT stationed in Quantico, that's O-3 to you. Your entire "argument" here is laughable and completely stupid; just write everything off as a "conspiracy theory" and call it a day. We have a word for people like you: SHEEP! You obviously didn't see THE INVISIBLE WAR, either, it's pretty damning: the military IS a rape culture. In December 2011, a military court ruled rape AN OCCUPATIONAL HAZARD OF MILITARY SERVICE. When you add on top the PSA's telling men to "Ask her when she's sober!" and none of these criminals going on a sex offender list when leaving the military, that is a rape culture. The Pentagon has PROTECTING all of these rapists from maximum punishments while the survivors are now dealing with PTSD and MST. Don't try to pretend that the military isn't a rape culture, because IT IS!

Jan 7 - 04:42 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

And Jesse Ventura is a former NAVY SEAL and I will believe his word over yours any day of the week!

Jan 7 - 04:44 PM

Dave J

Dave J

That's funny you should say that too because I just saw Jesse Ventura on Piers Morgon Live the other day and he too also believed that Bin Laden was taken out by SEAL team 6!

Jan 7 - 04:59 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

Wrong again, Bob! I know exactly what interview you are talking about and all Jesse said was, "I don't have a problem with the book" written about the Seal Team 6's raid that (supposedly) killed bin Laden. He then says they have their first amendment rights to publish the book, he never said anything remotely close to that he believes Seal team 6 killed bin Laden. Sorry, Dave, put in another quarter and try again!

Jan 7 - 05:20 PM

Dave J

Dave J

Well, let me put it to you this way, if Piers Morgon ever "suspected" that Jesse Ventura whose an admitted SEAL himself said "I don't believe he was killed by SEAL team six". Piers would've questioned him about it and he did not have to- does this make any sense? Wouldn't Jesse stand up and say that "I myself don't think the SEALs ever killed Bin Laden!" because Jesse unlike you has no doubts he was killed by them? You have doubts about SEALS taking out Bin Laden when you yourself were never there is like saying Jesse never did any missions since there were no pictures! Were their any pictures when you down there 24/7 as well as all the other soldiers?

Jan 7 - 05:43 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

BTW Jesse was never a Navy SEAL, he worked in EOD. I too have worked with SEAL teams in my time. The difference, I was never punched out by an actual SEAL for my crazy conspiracy theory views. Specifically saying that Navy SEALS deserved to die.

Jan 7 - 05:49 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

I just find it interesting that you'll take the word of one guy who you thought was a Navy SEAL in Jesse Venture, but won't take the opinion of an entire team of them that they killed Osama Bin Laden. It's an interesting contradiction to me.

Jan 7 - 06:20 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Lastly, and then I'm done. You accuse us all of being sheep then call us all names and deride us when we question YOU. Irony, love it.

Jan 7 - 06:31 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

Hey Big Brother: Kirby Dick's THE INVISIBLE WAR just became the #1 film of 2012 according to Rotten Tomatoes. All of the facts are taken from actual studies from the Department of Defense. Watch it and then we can continue this conversation; otherwise, I'm done with you!

Jan 8 - 01:48 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

I'll watch the movie, but you understand by taking that tack you're basically saying you can judge the entire 9/11 situation by watching Michael Moore's "documentary" on it. A two hour movie based on the testimony of 8 victims vs 17 years of first hand experience. Keep holding to your belief though and not answering any of the questions that contradict you. I honestly hope this is one hell of a movie to justify some of the arguments you've made. Until then.

Jan 8 - 03:39 PM

misterkyle1901

kyle T

Woah at your movie watching credentials! What I was actually trying to say there was that this was a discussion of film and not of the military to ensure that I wouldn't insult your intelligence on that matter. But I stand by it. All I have to go on here is what you've posted here today, and what you've posted here today have been insulting to the common moviegoer (which is actually not necessarily a bad thing on this website, but you did it for the wrong reasons--you can insult their inability to demand better but don't assume that everyone's a moron who will believe everything they see in the movie), and a misconception that most people who've seen the film will not agree with. If we're speaking in terms of conspiracies, Hollywood is mostly liberal. A Pro-war movie is not going to gain this much traction in this day and age. That's just fact. I don't know how long you've been visiting this site, but we've had discussions on that matter. Also, why would critics tell everyone that the movie isn't pro-war when it is? What would that accomplish? The movie is very obviously considered high-brow, something that liberals are more attracted to. They're not going to be duped into seeing a pro-war film and suddenly change their minds. They're going to be pissed. There's no logic there.
And those same critics gave The Invisible War a hundred percent.
This is kind of what I meant by "conspiracy" earlier. If your proof rests on "cause' I know," its not gonna be a good discussion.
I just want you to rest easy knowing that no matter how many times someone calls the movie "realistic" or "detailed oriented" or whatever (the same things were said about the Bourne movies too), no one is going to honestly believe this is the truth. Most of us know that there is plenty classified information that will not be a part of any movie with a title and release date.
Side note, the movie was written and they began shooting before Osama Bin Laden was killed. I do think a lot of what transpired prior would not have this sort of vindication behind it.
Perhaps, when you say "propaganda," I hear "someone evil attempting to control people" and that gets me. With regards to the movie, I don't think anyone is evil here or doing anything vindictive.

Jan 7 - 01:29 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

There is no logic in the liberal-conservative war, period; hell, I don't even like people who play either of those cards because all it does is say there are sides of the argument without thinking outside the box. Plus, when did I "insult" the common moviegoer? By calling them sheep? Uh, lol, okay...there are a lot of ignorant sheep in this country; why do you think Honey Boo Boo is always hot news? In fact, that's why I recommended people to NOT PAY to see it. I NEVER ASSUMED THAT EVERYONE IN THIS COUNTRY WHO GOES TO SEE ZDT IS A MORON; A LOT OF THEM WILL TAKE EVERYTHING AS FACT BECAUSE OF THOSE DANGEROUS WORDS: "This film is based on actual events and first-hand witness accounts." Yeah, all from the fucking CIA! I insulted the critics, because they are not questioning its ethics, morals, or facts in any way shape or form. If ZDT wasn't getting all this critical praise and Oscar buzz, I wouldn't be as defensive as I am regarding the movie. Now, I've read all the critics' bullshit, how about you read this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/04/letter-kathryn-bigelow-zero-dark-thirty. As far as confirming or denying when bin Laden, who knows when the piece of shit was killed and, quite frankly, who cares? We have hundreds of more important issues we as Americans have to worry about but no, we have to celebrate our victory of "finding and killing" bin Laden and justifying our illegal acts of torture while also ignoring the real problems with this country. By the way, THE INVISIBLE WAR was reviewed by 47 critics, while ZDT is going to end up with over 300, and that is just on RT alone. Many top-10 lists have ZDT but not THE INVISIBLE WAR and to me I think that's downright sickening, because we are giving credence to an organization that covered-up a rape culture in the military seven decades. (PS, none of the questions I posed here you have been able to give me an adequate answer, particularly that one!). What also makes me angry is the fact that Boal was given classified access in the first place: he's a fucking screenwriter!!! Am I really the only one who finds this disturbing? "With regards to the movie, I don't think anyone is evil here or doing anything vindictive." It's pretty weird you are saying this when the film is about torture, which is illegal. Disdain for human rights, one of the core fundamentals of fascism.

Jan 7 - 01:55 PM

Dave J

Dave J

I'm just curious about something, if you're not a big fan of Boal who was a "war" jounalist of the Iraq and perhaps Afganistan war btw, and if you already know what to expect from "Zero Dark Thirty", why did you go and watch it then? So that you can 'slam' it some more! What makes your claim that "Zero Dark Thirty" is nothing more than a propoganda piece when it states what happened in accordance to one or two people who were involved in the killing of Bin Laden? And let's make some thing clear here, the "Invisible War" is about someone else and not about the assassination of Osama Bin Laden, am I correct about that? Because every soldier has his own story to tell since s/he can't be everywhere at once, right!

And before you scorn on the lack of movie critics seeing the "Invisble War" you know how the film industry works, right! Because the reason "Zero Dark Thirty" are getting more screens is because it's being picked up by a bigger distributer since Bigelow won Oscars on her previous film "The Hurt Locker" which that film was in the exact same situation, had the comp. of the The Hurt Locker had not be pre-screening it to movie critics, they would not have been able to watch it either! Now, if you have so much passion for "The Invisble War" which I know is a great war film as well, then put some of your own money into it so that other people- not just the movie critics can also see it too!

Jan 7 - 03:26 PM

Dave J

Dave J

First you're offended by Mark Boal's tactics to get the information that he did, and then you paid dollars to go and see it "can" also be interpreted that you're also condoning what he did if you already knew about what Boal did?

Jan 7 - 03:26 PM

misterkyle1901

kyle T

I found it disappointing when so many people thought that Osama Bin Laden's death was worth celebrating. I think you're failing to notice that we seem to agree on most things... maybe I have more faith in people than you do. I said, "with regards to the movie" for a reason. I think its a misstep that the direction would even imply that torture got us anywhere. But if you're someone, like me, who thinks torture is something wholly evil, than I don't think its a leap to say, at the end of the film, "well, we sacrificed our core principles trying to kill this one man" and ask if it was worth it. Which is exactly how I felt when everyone was celebrating. PEOPLE generally do not see low budget, well reviewed movies. Its not something made for the masses looking for easy consumption, its for people who want to be challenged and to sit down and have a discussion afterwards. I guess no matter what, we come back to "Its just a movie." But thats what it is. But the words "just" or "only" are unnecessary. Its art, and as such, we need to have discussions like these. We never would have had it if it wasn't for the movie. People have been looking back at the event as some high point and nothing else, and have moved on..
By the way, reviewers review the movies that are sent to them, especially if there's been no theatrical release--if you have a problem with the low number of reviews, take it up with the distributers of the film.

Jan 7 - 03:32 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

Dave: I didn't pay a dime to see ZDT, that's the difference between you and me. And to be honest, I purchased copies of THE INVISIBLE WAR and sent them to all the friends I have in the service including my childhood (female) friend. See the great irony, is that THE INVISIBLE WAR is a film that is about human rights, not just about a mass government coverup. ZDT is about the disdain for human rights and is made entirely for money and propaganda purposes. I can't believe I'm the only one seeing this. Whatever, go see the movie first and then I will look forward to your opinion. Just pay to see another one, that's all, that's my recommendation.

Jan 7 - 03:56 PM

Dave J

Dave J

Okay then, let me reavaulate what I've said then, even though you agree that both have diferent themes whereas "Invisible War" is a documentary about 'rape in the military' and "Zero Dark Thirty" is a movie about the 'assassination of Bin Laden' who was responsible for more than 3,000 innocent civilians, that you aren't able to "differentiate" nor adapt the two as being completely different movies since they're both about the war in Afganistan and Iraq anyway, even though "rape" never occurred during the capture and killing of Bin Laden, would that be a fair assessment?

And I just want to say one more thing, that I myself can enjoy both films(Invisible War/ Zero Dark Thirty) "equallly" without discriminating one from the other or in better words will not link "all" or every war film ever made including documentaries as being as one! As I thought "Platoon", "Full Metal Jacket" and the "Casualties of War" among other films all consists including the documentary "Heart Of Darkness" to have different themes with each other and "not" related to one another except that they all take place in Vietnam!

And tell me something is the "Invisible War" in your opinion "should" be the only one to see about Iraq/ Afganistan even though they're many others to watch as well such as "Jar Head", "Restrepo" and "Green Zone" because there's no such thing, right because every soldier fighting in uniform has his own story to tell!

Jan 7 - 04:56 PM

Dave J

Dave J

Did rape occurred when you were serving down there, and how come you or your other regimen didn't report it? And it's naive to assume that rape happends all the time even though you yourself didn't see anything too? Meaning that you believed in the "sensationism" from the documentary only that it may have stopped when you served at that particular time when you were serving down there or in most places in Iraq/ Afganistan- would that be a fair statement!

Jan 7 - 05:36 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Also we haven't adequately answered the question about "why rape culture was covered up for 70 years" because you've yet to offer fact one as to how there is a huge coverup of rape culture beyond stating it vehemently and throwing around personal anecdotes to support you. It's like the question "Did it feel good to have sex with your brother, yes or no?" Also, at no point have you disputed the facts of what the military does to discourage rape and sexual assault except to scream about the existance of a rape culture. I'm sorry if this upsets you, but in life people are going to contest your idea's. Especially on Rotten Tomatoes. If you don't like disagreement you came to the wrong place.

Jan 7 - 06:41 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

OMG I was just using LA Confidential as an example it applies to all movies. Bigelow has been very clear that it's not a work of pure fact. Use Men of Honor then if you need a better example. It's based on real events and makes the same claims as ZDT, but tons of that movie are dramatized to make it a better movie. Yes, make light of my arguments while just calling people names and writing their opinions off as sheep. Even as an O3/LT you still know two things, jack and shit. Because for at least 6 of those years your were an Ensign and a LTJG. Even at a LT you should have been doing two things fetching a CDR or CAPT his coffee and doing exactly what your Chief told you to do to avoid embarrassing yourself like you're doing now. Rape is a hazard for the reasons I gave. Put 5,000 men and women is something the 300 yards long and then send them out to sea for 6 months with minimal port visits and you're gonna have a few cases of rape regardless of who they are. That's just common sense. Also telling people to be smart "Ask her if she's sober" doesn't condone rape. It condones being smart about your drinking and sexual habits. They tell girls the exact same thing which when you think about it and if you want to get offended is way more insulting to us men in the military. BTW I've never seen a PSA that said it in the terms you put it out in. The only reason I don't question the validity of the argument at all is because I've heard it said at GMT's, said it myself in the terms I stated. I don't know about your claims about sex offender lists, but I have seen or had personal knowledge of in 17 years no less than 7 individuals who were sentenced to prison time at govt prisons for rape and sexual assault. You can keep yelling about rape culture all you want I'm obviously not going to change your mind, but you can't deny the facts that the military provides training to all individuals making them knowledgable about sexual assault and rape and how to avoid it, prosecutes the individuals guilty of it and provides counselling via the Chaplain's office, medical services, fleet and family, base psychologists and myriad other services for the victims during and after an assault. What exactly do you want them to do. How do civilians do anything different and how are non-military rape victims PTSD any different? BTW CPO with 17+ years of service, have been a CPO for 10 of those years and have never raped anyone if that helps give my opinion credence.

Jan 7 - 05:41 PM

infernaldude

Infernal Dude

Damn, what'd I miss!?

Jan 8 - 01:09 AM

infernaldude

Infernal Dude

Kids like horror movies. Plus, the 3D ticket price helped.

I'm a little skeptical about Gangster Squad. IMO, it has a similar look to '96s Mulholland Falls which ended up being big letdown.

Jan 6 - 05:44 PM

Matthew R.

Matthew Reimer

I agree, with Zero Dark Thirty coming out in wide release in the prime time of award season, that's most likely to win. I didn't even know that Gangster Squad was opening up this Friday. Plus, I think many people are feeling uncomfortable with it because the whole reason on why the movie was edited and bumped up was because of the Aurora shooting.

Jan 6 - 06:01 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Except the Lesbian scene. That exceeded all expectations.

Jan 6 - 06:50 PM

Daniel Robert

Daniel Robert

That was Mullholland Drive, not Mullholland Falls.

Jan 6 - 08:06 PM

infernaldude

Infernal Dude

No, the film I'm referring to is Mulholland Falls starring Nick Nolte. The film you're referring to stars Naomi Watts and is a VERY different film.

Jan 7 - 12:32 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

My bad, easy mistake to make I think. I withdraw my comment...unless we want to talk about that scene some more, and let's be honest, why wouldn't we? :)

Jan 7 - 03:58 PM

infernaldude

Infernal Dude

Don't get me wrong. I loves me some Mulholland Drive. Loves me some Naomi Watts, too. Has no one seen Mulholland Falls? Such a spectacular failure. Treat Williams was terrible in it.

Jan 7 - 10:43 PM

Matthew R.

Matthew Reimer

I agree, with Zero Dark Thirty coming out in wide release in the prime time of award season, that's most likely to win. I didn't even know that Gangster Squad was opening up this Friday. Plus, I think many people are feeling uncomfortable with it because the whole reason on why the movie was edited and bumped up was because of the Aurora shooting.

Jan 6 - 06:01 PM

King Crunk

King Crunk

Glad Django held up well, it deserves all that and more. I have seen it three times now, and I believe it is second only to Pulp Fiction in Tarantino's catalogue.

Hopefully Chainsaw 3D follows The Devil Inside's second weekend and has like a 75% drop. Garbage in every way.

Will hopefully be checking out Zero Dark Thirty this weekend.

Jan 6 - 06:44 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Arrrggghhh damn you Japan, get Django here now!!!

Jan 6 - 06:51 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Except the Lesbian scene. That exceeded all expectations.

Jan 6 - 06:50 PM

Daniel Robert

Daniel Robert

That was Mullholland Drive, not Mullholland Falls.

Jan 6 - 08:06 PM

infernaldude

Infernal Dude

No, the film I'm referring to is Mulholland Falls starring Nick Nolte. The film you're referring to stars Naomi Watts and is a VERY different film.

Jan 7 - 12:32 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

My bad, easy mistake to make I think. I withdraw my comment...unless we want to talk about that scene some more, and let's be honest, why wouldn't we? :)

Jan 7 - 03:58 PM

infernaldude

Infernal Dude

Don't get me wrong. I loves me some Mulholland Drive. Loves me some Naomi Watts, too. Has no one seen Mulholland Falls? Such a spectacular failure. Treat Williams was terrible in it.

Jan 7 - 10:43 PM

Bigbrother

Big Brother

Arrrggghhh damn you Japan, get Django here now!!!

Jan 6 - 06:51 PM

Bryant Rydberg

Bryant Rydberg

Lots of potential with Horror flicks at box office if Hollywood only knew how to make good horror flicks which they dont. I was hoping we would finally get a good Chainsaw flick until I heard who the director was and surprised it is #1.

Jan 6 - 06:54 PM

Daniel Robert

Daniel Robert

That was Mullholland Drive, not Mullholland Falls.

Jan 6 - 08:06 PM

Mgen Mark

Mgen Mark

why do people do this

Jan 6 - 08:17 PM

Typhon

Typhon Q

A rather slow start to the year...

Jan 6 - 08:27 PM

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