Bat Movies Part 4: The Dark Knight Trilogy

Friday was a long day. The pure unmitigated horror of what transpired in Aurora, Colorado was on repeat, moments imagined that weren't allowed to leave my mind as we sat around discussing what this meant to us, what this meant to the movies, what this all just meant.


Yesterday, I saw The Dark Knight Rises. I took my seat in a state of dread. In his statement, Christopher Nolan described the movie theater as a place of innocence, a hub for vehicles that transport you from reality and all the troubles attached to it. But where do you escape to when it's the theater that's turning on you?

Nolan's movies are full of panic and anxiety, so I questioned my willingness to endure an apocalyptic trilogy capper. But this movie was exactly what I needed. Nolan has always made dark films, but recently they've become not so bleak. As the lights dimmed in the theater, so did my dread. I gave myself into the sights and sound for a final time. And I found it all uplifting and inspirational.

(Those who haven't seen The Dark Knight Rises: This article, and its comments, is henceforth your own personal game of Minesweeper: Spoilers Edition. Play at your own risk.)


The first surprise was how much I enjoyed the villains. I thought Bane would be a total bummer to be around, but I found him almost charming: He sounded funny and could be funny when the moment commanded it, he was menacing as hell, and -- utilizing Tom Hardy's sympathetic eyes to full effect -- could elicit even pity. Anne Hathaway was perfection incarnate; her rendition of Selina Kyle is my favorite ever, in any form. It's a tricky feat to convince the audience that Bruce Wayne and Selina are right for each other, but Nolan delivers just enough interplay to make it work.

And The Dark Knight Rises is a movie of "just enoughs." Just enough Catwoman & Batman, just enough Bane, just enough Gordon, just enough time spent in a dank prison and at occupied Gotham. There are so many moving parts that too much or too little of any element threatens to throw the movie out of its orbit. Nolan keeps it all in balance. However, I'd still question him on Juno Temple's character. How useless was she?

But the real surprise: This is one pulpy movie. Not campy, mind you. The Dark Knight aimed to button the superhero down to reality, but TDKR functions on a grander physical scale. It embraces the outsized comic elements, things like a nuclear bomb plot, a gassy masked villain, and a man who is snapped in two, spending months in the desert to discover his power again. These things are believable, but not particularly realistic (in contrast to TDK being both at the same time). In doing so, the film exits our world and begins to operate on a mythical level. It's really quite easy to escape into this movie.


Now, Nolan is not one to let the details slip past him. So it's another surprise how little details are in place. I predict this is where people will have the most issues with the movie. Details like, how did Bruce Wayne get out of that desert and back into Gotham, which happened to be under full lockdown? Why is Gotham still so clean after 80 days of armed criminal occupation? Everything should be drenched in blood, dirt, and corpses. Instead, it looked like just an emptier Gotham City soundstage. I obsessed over one shot: I don't recall who was speaking, but in the background there was this row of garbage bins. No damage to them, lids still closed. No way they would've still have been there. Garbage cans are the first to go in a riot, everyone knows that! So why did Nolan let these things slide when they would've faced major scrutiny in Batman Begins and The Dark Knight?

The answer I think lies in the story Nolan needed to tell. You could create a whole movie out of Bruce's journey back to America. Or make a PBS miniseries out of daily life in occupied Gotham City. The movie is 15 minutes shy of a three-hour run time and that is just enough room to tell the story without having to cram it in.

Take, for example, the scene where police rush the thugs. It's ridiculous. Why would you charge headlong? That's suicide. Did the cops forget their tactical training while huddled underground? A scene like this would have no place in BB or TDK. In Rises, it's a good fit. In that moment, the story gets a big push forward, crucial when this late in the movie. A slowdown in the narrative would be deadly. Again, was this realistic? Nope. But, believable. A master storyteller like Nolan knows where to make that incision, prescient of how many little details you can remove before you lose the audience and they revolt.

Last note: the fight scenes. In the previous films, the fights were usually inundated with shaky cam, so I applaud Nolan's decision to shoot with steady clarity. There's a matter-of-factness to the way the fights play out, especially the backbreaker one. Nolan doesn't want you to feel like you're in the fight, he wants you to observe, much like Catwoman did. One feels helpless to the brutality, a resigned horror at the sight Batman's punches shrugged off as mere whiffs of wind. That dread builds up again in those moments. But so does a thirst for redemption and salvation. I am grateful The Dark Knight Rises delivered.

Let's set the DeLorean back real quick since I'm realizing I devoted the entire article to The Dark Knight Rises. My curiosity was piqued when I heard the director of Memento and Insomnia was doing a Batman movie. It's largely enjoyable. Even though it represented a hard reset, watching it again and it feels actually like a transitional movie. The production design, especially of Gotham City and the train that is central to the climax, is still Burton-inspired, with lots of brown and rising steam. The men are often tailored into sharp suits, a visual mainstay for every Nolan film going forward. Katie Holmes, however, is really out of place. I suspect that she wasn't Nolan's first pick, furthered by the fact that he was quick to recast the Rachel Dawes role for The Dark Knight. Holmes wears jarringly plain clothes, likely inspired by the successful Kirsten Dunst role in Spider-Man.

The Dark Knight is still my favorite Batman movie, though I'd have to watch Rises again to be certain. Rises had a big sweeping narrative arc that really pulls you in, but there are individual pieces to The Dark Knight that are beyond anything else. The novelty of seeing Batman in this ultra sleek modern world never gets old. And, of course, The Joker. Heath Ledger's performance will remain legendary. So complete was this vision of the Joker that TDK deflates considerably when he's not on-screen.

What's funny is how The Dark Knight now feels in the wake of Rises, which was maximalist with its storytelling in every way. I think the opening bank heist, largely free of special effects, is still the best sequence committed to a Batman film. The vertiginous rush seeing crooks zipline across a cityscape, the back and forth dialogue, and the rising tension as the bad guys start killing each other. It leads to Ledger's incredible introduction and one of my favorite lines, "Whatever doesn't kill you, makes you stranger."

The Avengers was a culmination of a decade of films and staggering business mergers. The Dark Knight Rises closes one of the best trilogies ever, one that redefined what can happen when comic book and cinema collide. We've entered what seems to be a curious age for filmmakers. It's not quite the '70s again, but with Joss Whedon and Nolan writing and directing these films, it's almost like the emergence of blockbuster auteur theory. Where will the superhero movie go from here?

Comments

Dave J

Dave J

Now that nolan doesn't want to do anymore, I guess that means it's either Sam Raimi, Tim Burton or Chris Columbus is going to take over the series again in about a few years time with a whole new cast!

Jul 23 - 03:48 PM

Steven S.

Steven Scott

I wonder who the cast would be?

Jul 23 - 04:14 PM

sonicxpoint1

Tim Olsen

Or Marc Webb.

Jul 23 - 04:15 PM

Norman Dostal

Norman Dostal

Tim Olsen-Marc Webb ruined spider-man-terrible movie-30 year old super model as peter parker? yuck

Jul 25 - 09:47 AM

Tyler Hovivian

Tyler Hovivian

Sorry, bad habit of mine but just have to fix your typo. I believe you meant to say "Sam Raimi ruined Spiderman". Cool, glad we got that taken care of.

ps. And also, Maguire was the same age as Garfield when playing Peter Parker.

Jul 25 - 05:26 PM

Patrick Dobson

Patrick Dobson

i agree with norman dostel on the webb killing spider-man thing; "nolan"-izing spider-man is not the way to go; you don't have to make every superhero movie realistic; anybody who thinks that the amazing spider-man was better than the avengers is kidding themselves

albeit this is my personal opinion, every spider-man movie i saw in theaters i loved (even 3, mainly cuz it was imax), and the newest one to me left a lot to be desired

Jul 27 - 12:56 PM

Richard Sprunk

Richard Sprunk

Agree, the new Spiderman was dismal. No charm, no pop, lousy soundtrack. I preferred Spiderman 3 to this one.

Jul 30 - 09:48 AM

dudemeister

dude meister

Sam Rami? Chris Columbus? This is Batman we're talking about here, you know, dark, brooding. Seriously, are you familiar with the work of those two? They are the complete opposite of Batman. And Tim Burton's not gonna direct Batman again, not a chance. The reboot director would probably be someone like David Fincher or Darren Aronofsky.

Jul 23 - 05:18 PM

I fight for the users

Ian Fastert

Um, have you seen Drag Me to Hell?

Jul 24 - 05:59 AM

BatMime

Philip Zamora

Yeah, it's a cartoonish spookfest. Sure, there are some effective moments, but Raimi's over-the-top style is still in full swing, lots of cartoon influences. What about the moment when the blunt object falls on the gypsy woman's head and her eyes literally bug out of her head like The Mask? I don't think I'd want a Batman movie to go that route.

Jul 24 - 06:17 AM

Todd Garry

Todd Garry

Philip nailed it.

Jul 24 - 06:10 PM

Austin Stock

Austin Stock

I can't believe you guys compare directors based on specific scenes like that and determine whether they are capable of doing anything dark. The guy created The Evil Dead, one of the first Mainstream American Gore Films that has a tree raping a girl. Based on that scene should I decide whether he can direct Batman? no.

Whoever directs the next Batman is going to be a newcomer just like Nolan was for Batman Begins.

Jul 25 - 01:49 PM

Dave J

Dave J

In my opinion, Sam Raimi isn't the same director he once was i mean can you really compare the "Evil Dead" movies to the 'Spiderman" movies! Raimi has adapted to using CGI more in his films than using the old style of gory make up and camera trickery! Although, the "Army of Darkness" may seem like a special effects movie, it was very imaginative with so many things happening all the time and a homage to Ray Harryhausen and his "Jason And The Argonauts"!

Jul 25 - 01:59 PM

Dave J

Dave J

You're forgetting one thing "Dudemeister" both Fincher and Aronofsky best films are normally rated "R" not PG! And the direction of any super hero character does not have to be absolute since a special effects Batman movie can be as successful as one that don't use any CGI at all! For example- Tim Burton's Batman films still resonate with viewers despite being a different Batman character than Nolan's!

Jul 24 - 03:25 PM

King  S.

King Simba

Okay, first of all all of the past seven Batman live action films have been rated PG-13, not PG. In fact, in the case of Batman Returns and The Dark Knight, the MPAA was actually critisized for being too soft with their ratings. Second of all, I believe Fincher's highest rated film so far is Social Network which is rated PG-13.

Finally, Nolan's previous two films before taking on Batman were rated R, so just because a director starts off with R-rated films doesn't mean he can't do PG-13 films, and as said before, Fincher has already proven that he can handle PG-13 films.

Jul 24 - 04:15 PM

Dave J

Dave J

If you mean "Inception" it was rated PG! And also Fincher doesn't seem like a director who'd be doing super hero films even if what you're sayying is true! I also thought Social Network was an R rating but notice I said "some" of Fincher's best films are "R" rated!

Jul 24 - 04:29 PM

bigbrother

Bigbrother .

Did Christopher Nolan seem like the kind of director who would do a super hero movie before he did one? How'd that turn out by the way?

Jul 24 - 06:45 PM

King  S.

King Simba

I said BEFORE he did Batman. Both Insomnia and Memento were rated R. Oh, and Inception was rated PG-13 (I got the box right next to me to prove it). As for Fincher not being fit for Batman, did Sam Raimi seem fit for Spiderman? Did Bryan Singer seem fit for X-men? Did Christopher Nolan seem fit for Batman? Heck, in Tim Burton's case the studio had to release the teasers for Batman 1989 early because of all the complaints people had over choosing a guy whose previous films were comedies. Granted, sometimes the transition from small dramas to big budget Blockbusters don't work out so well (Gavid Hood is a prime example), but then again I think Fincher has proven himself to be fit for Batman. Not only has he dabbled in several genres, from horror (Panic Room) to mystery (Zodiac) to drama (The Curious Case of Benjamin Button), he managed to make an award winning movie out of Facebook, as site that 90% of the time can best be described as a time waster.

Of course the real question is whether or not he'd want to do a superhero movie. Darren Aronofsky has been attached to serveral superhero movies in the past (including Batman before Nolan came along), so I think it's only a matter of time before he finally does one, but I'm not sure how Fincher feels about directing a superhero movie.

Jul 25 - 12:03 AM

Dave J

Dave J

I wasn't totally clear what you meant but as a result of rephrasing it you made your point clearer. But anyway, Sam Raimi did Darkman before he did the Spiderman movies meaning that if he didn't do it he would've done some other super hero movie. Also remembered Aronosky was attached to many super hero projects but it may be was a result of him wanting to do something that is rated "R" may have been a factor and by looking at the kind of movies he's made so far seem to be an unlikely candidate. And you're also talking about a director(Fincher) who demands many retakes to wanting to make his scenes to be perfect- that in itself would cost any movie company more money than what was intended since super hero films in general can be costly than say any average Fincher film. My point is that not all highly acclaimed directors are not into making super hero films particularly Scorsese, Coppolla and Spielberg(him being an exec to the Transformers movies doesn't even count)! I think that the reason Nolan did the Batman movies was because he thought of a different direction after seeing Burton's Batman movies and Donner's Superman- I read somwhere of one many interviews that he's done. I mean had he not seen those other super hero films he wouldn't have made it at all!

Jul 25 - 12:07 PM

Justin Montello

Justin Montello

don't forget The Prestige that was PG-13

Jul 27 - 01:23 PM

Namclay

Zach M.

Evil Dead.

Aug 21 - 04:47 PM

Shannon Potratz

Shannon Potratz

Apparently there's only three directors in Hollywood for WB to choose from?

Jul 23 - 05:19 PM

Jared Gullage

Jared Gullage

I think directors should leave this series alone for a long, long time. Nolan has left his mark on it for another ten or so years.

Jul 23 - 06:16 PM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

Indeed. Really the only way they got away with making another Spiderman so soon was that the final Raimi movie was hideous. How are you going to top Nolan's Batmans? Answer: You aren't, you have to let people forget about them and then play to a new generation.

Jul 23 - 06:34 PM

scifimark

scifi mark

Id be shocked if it goes more than 5 years without a new batman movie

Jul 26 - 01:03 PM

Bertram Krogh

Bertram Krogh

I agree, rebooting the films again would be an insult to Nolan himself. He made the series better by miles, and it should be long before another director should even try to fill his shoes. Nolanā??s Batman trilogy is, hands down, one of the best trilogies in movie history. Personally, I thought it was better than Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings trilogy.

Jul 24 - 08:20 AM

Zach N.

Zach Nix

To be honest, I find trilogies like The Samurai Trilogy from the 1950s to be far better than Nolan's Batman Trilogy.

Jul 24 - 09:58 AM

Dave J

Dave J

You guys are forgetting one thing Nolan personally doesn't own the 'character' for if Warner Brothers surface another Batman movie in a few years, it's your own choice whether or not you want to check it out or not for it can be concocted into something else with a whole new persona and it's going to make it's money by the new generation!

Jul 24 - 03:33 PM

This comment has been removed.

This comment has been removed.

BatMime

Philip Zamora

Just ignore him, he's trying to be controversial to stoke some fire, that's all.

Jul 24 - 06:19 AM

Ashutosh Kapoor

Ashutosh Kapoor

Damn man....your need help asap !!

Jul 24 - 08:36 AM

mastervaati

Dion Johnson

I'm curious of how well Bruce Timm would do a live-action film,myself.

Jul 24 - 04:24 PM

Jamie Evans

Jamie Evans

What about a guy like Peter Jackson or Guillermo del Toro directing a Batman film. Talk about epic! Those are two directors I would love to see direct a film of this caliber!

Jul 25 - 12:28 PM

Dave M.

Dave Mart

That's precisely why there will never be any other Batman to me than Nolan's version.

Jul 25 - 01:10 PM

Ryan N.

Ryan Nolan

Great trilogy that will go down as a classic!

Jul 26 - 08:21 PM

Peter W.

Peter Winters

Uwe Bol?

Jul 30 - 09:58 AM

Steven S.

Steven Scott

I wonder who the cast would be?

Jul 23 - 04:14 PM

sonicxpoint1

Tim Olsen

Or Marc Webb.

Jul 23 - 04:15 PM

Norman Dostal

Norman Dostal

Tim Olsen-Marc Webb ruined spider-man-terrible movie-30 year old super model as peter parker? yuck

Jul 25 - 09:47 AM

Tyler Hovivian

Tyler Hovivian

Sorry, bad habit of mine but just have to fix your typo. I believe you meant to say "Sam Raimi ruined Spiderman". Cool, glad we got that taken care of.

ps. And also, Maguire was the same age as Garfield when playing Peter Parker.

Jul 25 - 05:26 PM

Patrick Dobson

Patrick Dobson

i agree with norman dostel on the webb killing spider-man thing; "nolan"-izing spider-man is not the way to go; you don't have to make every superhero movie realistic; anybody who thinks that the amazing spider-man was better than the avengers is kidding themselves

albeit this is my personal opinion, every spider-man movie i saw in theaters i loved (even 3, mainly cuz it was imax), and the newest one to me left a lot to be desired

Jul 27 - 12:56 PM

Richard Sprunk

Richard Sprunk

Agree, the new Spiderman was dismal. No charm, no pop, lousy soundtrack. I preferred Spiderman 3 to this one.

Jul 30 - 09:48 AM

bamb0o-stick

Jonathan Y

I thought the scene where the police and mercenaries clash was silly too, but I overlooked that for the imagery Nolan wanted to portray. The image of two forces clashing head-on, fighting tooth and nail, chaos and order. I know realistically everyone would be splintering and taking cover from gunfire, but I didn't care.

Jul 23 - 04:18 PM

Tricky W.

Tricky Won

Yup yup, this film was a story about the characters, and the imagery of the two forces charging in battle is much more powerful to the character of the personified police force than a realistic gun battle scene. I guess Nolan could have made it more realistic by having the villains use stolen electronic Wayne Industries weapons and have those rendered useless by the emp charges in order to give them an excuse to actually fight hand-to-hand, but he already had about a million story lines to juggle and end perfectly in the film.

Jul 24 - 10:20 PM

Movie Monster

Bentley Lyles

The first film was great, the second was excellnt, and the third was very good. I hope they don't reboot the series too soon. Warner Bros. should focus on the new Superman series then try doing Flash, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman before Batman. I think WB wants to make a cinematic universe a la Marvel that leads into a Justice League. If that's their plan, they should save Batman for last before Justice League. They're probably going to do another Joker in the next series (he's such an iconic villain) but I want to see Harley Quinn in a live-action Batman film then my life would be complete!

Jul 23 - 04:38 PM

bigbrother

Bigbrother .

Kristen Bell as Harley Quinn...give me a sec, I need a moment to myself.

Jul 23 - 04:45 PM

Ray Gr

Ray Gr

OHHH WHOOPS! ...sorry about that... Let me clean it up.

Jul 23 - 04:56 PM

Gordon Franklin Terry Sr

Gordon Terry

gross; you shouldn't have.

Jul 23 - 06:41 PM

Gordon Franklin Terry Sr

Gordon Terry

gross; you shouldn't have.

Jul 23 - 06:41 PM

Movie Monster

Bentley Lyles

I can see Kristen Bell as Harley Quinn but if there is anyone that I can see nail the role, it would be Britanny Murphy. Too bad she's dead.

Jul 23 - 08:26 PM

bigbrother

Bigbrother .

Yeah, fortunately at least we got to see her do the accent in Sin City. Think Alison Hannigan could be good too. She's really good at delightfully deranged.

Jul 23 - 09:16 PM

jake s.

jake suttles

I think as far as just looks are concerned elisha cuthbert fits pretty well

Jul 24 - 12:58 PM

bigbrother

Bigbrother .

Yeah, but I'm not sure Elisha could pull off the physicality and Harley's personality is not really in her acting wheelhouse. She's more the eye rolling valley girl than the manic unhinged yet loveable psycho.

Jul 24 - 04:27 PM

Andrew Zachariason

Andrew Zachariason

And Daniel Day Lewis as Joker. That would be amazing!

Jul 24 - 09:09 PM

Dave M.

Dave Mart

Rooney Mara would have been awesome on that role if Nolan had worked the character with his vision.

Nov 3 - 08:21 PM

Alex Raskovich

Alex Raskovich

I think what you said is a good idea, it could go like that, different superhero movies through the coming years, all leading up to the year 2020 lets say. Though I think a stand alone batman movie is not neccessary. Instead Batman could be the one who sets up the Justice League in the eventual Justic League movie, I think that would make more sense. Batman is easily the smartest of the bunch, there is even a story arc where he has set plans on how to kill all of the other Justic League members in the event something goes horribly wrong. Also I always saw the Batman (Justice League) as different than stand alone Batman.

Jul 24 - 11:15 AM

Eldest2005

Christopher Aull

Unfortunately, they may do this just so that we could have a Justice League movie. We probably won't be getting that for a really long time since Nolan's Batman trilogy is suppossed to stand on its own and the Green Lantern movie wasn't very good.

Jul 25 - 02:20 PM

bigbrother

Bigbrother .

Kristen Bell as Harley Quinn...give me a sec, I need a moment to myself.

Jul 23 - 04:45 PM

Ray Gr

Ray Gr

OHHH WHOOPS! ...sorry about that... Let me clean it up.

Jul 23 - 04:56 PM

Gordon Franklin Terry Sr

Gordon Terry

gross; you shouldn't have.

Jul 23 - 06:41 PM

Gordon Franklin Terry Sr

Gordon Terry

gross; you shouldn't have.

Jul 23 - 06:41 PM

Movie Monster

Bentley Lyles

I can see Kristen Bell as Harley Quinn but if there is anyone that I can see nail the role, it would be Britanny Murphy. Too bad she's dead.

Jul 23 - 08:26 PM

bigbrother

Bigbrother .

Yeah, fortunately at least we got to see her do the accent in Sin City. Think Alison Hannigan could be good too. She's really good at delightfully deranged.

Jul 23 - 09:16 PM

jake s.

jake suttles

I think as far as just looks are concerned elisha cuthbert fits pretty well

Jul 24 - 12:58 PM

bigbrother

Bigbrother .

Yeah, but I'm not sure Elisha could pull off the physicality and Harley's personality is not really in her acting wheelhouse. She's more the eye rolling valley girl than the manic unhinged yet loveable psycho.

Jul 24 - 04:27 PM

Andrew Zachariason

Andrew Zachariason

And Daniel Day Lewis as Joker. That would be amazing!

Jul 24 - 09:09 PM

Dave M.

Dave Mart

Rooney Mara would have been awesome on that role if Nolan had worked the character with his vision.

Nov 3 - 08:21 PM

Matthew Czajka

Matthew Czajka

This article was entitled "The Dark Knight Trilogy", but the author pretty much just reviewed TDKR. There was little analysis of TDK, and no mentions of Batman Begins whatsoever. Grade: D-. Assigned topic not covered. Rewrite please!

Jul 23 - 04:46 PM

Gordon Franklin Terry Sr

Gordon Terry

its a rush job

Jul 23 - 06:42 PM

Troy Mendenhall

Troy Mendenhall

It's not the review we deserve, but the review we need right now

Jul 23 - 11:31 PM

jake s.

jake suttles

you know, aside from the last three paragraphs. sure it's minimal the they're def. in there.

Jul 24 - 01:02 PM

Ray Gr

Ray Gr

OHHH WHOOPS! ...sorry about that... Let me clean it up.

Jul 23 - 04:56 PM

Gordon Franklin Terry Sr

Gordon Terry

gross; you shouldn't have.

Jul 23 - 06:41 PM

Gordon Franklin Terry Sr

Gordon Terry

gross; you shouldn't have.

Jul 23 - 06:41 PM

Justin Parker

Justin Parker

it seems people are comparing the dark knight rises to what their memory of the dark knight is, as
opposed to what it actually is, its like your favorite band, if your heard
music from a new band for the first time, you would never think it was as good
as your favorite band no matter if it actually was or not, especially after
only hearing it once, youd say yea they were good, but not as good as my
favorite band not even close, its just natural, same thing happens with peoples
favorite athletes, no one ever admits a new athlete can be better than their
favorite athlete from the past, and if they do it takes time, im guilty of the
same thing, so as of now i think the dark knight is better than dark knight
rises, but i have to give it time to settle first and see it again before i can
truly decide. but some of the comments accuse dark knight rises of things, and
make it seem like the dark knight didnt have the same issues, i dont even want
to do this because the dark knight is my favorite movie all time, but it had
the same flaws, some poeple are saying there are too many convenient plot holes
in the dark knight rises, ok how about in the dark knight, during the truck
chase, the truck is being followed by a helicopter and the joker has two guys
on the side of skyscrapers shoot wires across them to tangle up the helicopter,
how would they ever know the exact height the helicopter was going to be at?
they wouldnt but its a movie, how about at the end of dark knight when citizens
and jail members are stuck on two boats, if gotham is as bad as they say it is,
pure scum of a city, people are corrupt, worst criminals ever, your telling me
there isn?t one group of criminals who would try to fight to get that remote,
or some citizens who would pull that trigger, if gotham is filled with the kind
of people they say it is, but you just accept it cuz it?s a movie, or how the
jokers men could lace an entire hospital that runs 24 hours a day with endless
amounts of explosives without people noticing? It?s a hospital not an empty
warehouse, but u just accept it cuz it?s a movie, or when bruce wayne drives
his Lamborghini in between the truck that was going to ram into car carrying
simon reese or whatever his name was that was going to give away the identity
of batman, but bruce wayne got there right in the nick of time! Seems a little
ridiculous in terms of timing and coincidence, but its just a movie so u accept
it?I could go on and on,

or another time batman just happens to show up in the dark
knight, when Harvey kidnaps the mental patient dressed as a cop, and drives him
to the middle of nowhere to threaten him, batman somehow finds them in time to
catch the coin before it lands for harveys second flip? And how the hell did he
even know where they were? But it?s a movie and you accept it

people bitched about how fast two face could turn into this
horrible villain, the joker killed his girlfriend, walks into his hospital
room, Harvey wants to kill him, but then one little speech and harveys like
eureka your right, yes, I agree with u joker, guy who just killed my
girlfriend, you have completely changed my value system, no no I don?t need to
think about it, I don?t have to kill u anymore, its all chance if u live or die
no big deal, these are all things people complained about with the dark knight,
but somehow forgot about when comparing it to dark knight rises?

how could Harvey dent get half his face blown
off, his eye is hanging out unrealistically and he can look around no problem,
they state that he took no pain killing drugs but he can talk fine even though
you see the individual muscles in his mouth hanging out, no problem talking,
doesn?t appear in pain, ridiculously unrealistic, but it?s a movie so u accept
it.

how realistic is it that when joker is trying to escape the prison and the bomb goes off it kills everyone in the room but him? doesnt even knock him down, the list goes on and on and on

People are comparing the dark knight rises, to what their
general memory of the dark knight is, as opposed to what it is, I remember the
dark knight coming out, and people bitching about all these things too, at the
end of the day, the dark knight had heath ledger, and he won an oscar for it,
you werent gonna touch that from a villain standpoint, the joker is the
ultimate batman villain, regardless of heath ledgers performance, the joker is
already the ultimate villain, then on top of that u had the ultimate
performance, that aspect wasn?t going to be topped, so they escalated the movie
in other ways, the gap between the two movies is not nearly as great as a few
people make it out to be

Jul 23 - 04:57 PM

Mike Blair

Mike Blair

I agree with everything you said.

Jul 23 - 05:20 PM

Peter W.

Peter Winters

I agree wih every you said but I only read the 1st word

Jul 30 - 10:01 AM

Jared Gullage

Jared Gullage

I agree for the most part, EXCEPT Joker knew a lot more than most because he'd managed to bribe quite a few people in the right places. He knew where the helicopter and trucks would be. Batman knew where Harvey Dent was because he followed him or has a trace on him (he's not letting the man who allows him to retire get out of his site for too long). The Joker wasn't the only one to survive the bomb, but he expected it, so it didn't throw him off his game AND he was away from where the blast happened. Probably, he killed the others with him who survived before escaping while they were ducking and covering. Two-Face's conversion and quick recovery was a bit hard to buy, BUT when you've lost everything and you want to get to the person responsible (who was the Joker, but Joker convinced him he wasn't) then maybe that makes it a little more acceptable. The Joker claimed to be 'following orders' and Harvey was after the one behind it all, the people who let Joker out of the box, so to speak, and that was Moroni or the Russian I think? Just saying.

Jul 23 - 06:32 PM

King  S.

King Simba

I think it has more to do with Harvey finding out that there would be little satisfaction in killing the Joker. He was like a mad dog. He didn't kill Rachel out of revenger or hatred.

On top of that, there was no real way to make him suffer either, which is something Harvey wanted the people responsible to feel. It was well established through the film that he actually enjoyed pain and would be willing to die simply to prove a point.

Jul 23 - 11:37 PM

jake s.

jake suttles

thats not it at all. at some point harvey decided that all parties involved in rachel's death get a 50/50 chance to live or die just like her. he flips the coin for the joker too, it just lands tails so the joker gets to live.

Jul 24 - 01:11 PM

King  S.

King Simba

I'm not sure how much he really left up to chance, especially with his "I make my luck" remark to Rachel.

Jul 24 - 04:16 PM

jake s.

jake suttles

that was before the accident when his coin with heads on both sides man.....after he got the coin back from gordon one of the sides was scratched away making it true chance, and mirroring his physical and mental change.

Jul 25 - 07:50 AM

Tricky W.

Tricky Won

They're really two different types of films. TDK was a tightly paced action film with a fantastic plot and driven by flawed characters who had to make difficult decisions which would not yield a perfect result. TDKR was an epic tale rooted deeply in the characters' hopes and dreams, with Nolan taking us on an epic emotional roller coaster of a ride while saying a heartfelt farewell to them at the end. That's how I felt about them anyways.

Jul 24 - 10:34 PM

Anujit Ganguly

Anujit Ganguly

Very well said Sir. I would just like to say that as a standalone movie The Dark Knight might be better than TDKR. But, as a Batman movie I feel it is the BEST. For a very simple reason when I came out of the theater after TDK all that was in my mind was The Joker and Heath Ledger's acting. This has not been the case here. Batman gained much more ground in this movie. It is a Batman movie after all.Thus, I would again say that TDKR is the best Batman movie and possibly the best superhero movie ever made.

Jul 25 - 03:59 AM

scifimark

scifi mark

Minor point but the bomb didnt kill everyone in the room but him. The guy he held at knife point was shown later in the movie

Jul 26 - 01:07 PM

dudemeister

dude meister

Sam Rami? Chris Columbus? This is Batman we're talking about here, you know, dark, brooding. Seriously, are you familiar with the work of those two? They are the complete opposite of Batman. And Tim Burton's not gonna direct Batman again, not a chance. The reboot director would probably be someone like David Fincher or Darren Aronofsky.

Jul 23 - 05:18 PM

I fight for the users

Ian Fastert

Um, have you seen Drag Me to Hell?

Jul 24 - 05:59 AM

BatMime

Philip Zamora

Yeah, it's a cartoonish spookfest. Sure, there are some effective moments, but Raimi's over-the-top style is still in full swing, lots of cartoon influences. What about the moment when the blunt object falls on the gypsy woman's head and her eyes literally bug out of her head like The Mask? I don't think I'd want a Batman movie to go that route.

Jul 24 - 06:17 AM

Todd Garry

Todd Garry

Philip nailed it.

Jul 24 - 06:10 PM

Austin Stock

Austin Stock

I can't believe you guys compare directors based on specific scenes like that and determine whether they are capable of doing anything dark. The guy created The Evil Dead, one of the first Mainstream American Gore Films that has a tree raping a girl. Based on that scene should I decide whether he can direct Batman? no.

Whoever directs the next Batman is going to be a newcomer just like Nolan was for Batman Begins.

Jul 25 - 01:49 PM

Dave J

Dave J

In my opinion, Sam Raimi isn't the same director he once was i mean can you really compare the "Evil Dead" movies to the 'Spiderman" movies! Raimi has adapted to using CGI more in his films than using the old style of gory make up and camera trickery! Although, the "Army of Darkness" may seem like a special effects movie, it was very imaginative with so many things happening all the time and a homage to Ray Harryhausen and his "Jason And The Argonauts"!

Jul 25 - 01:59 PM

Dave J

Dave J

You're forgetting one thing "Dudemeister" both Fincher and Aronofsky best films are normally rated "R" not PG! And the direction of any super hero character does not have to be absolute since a special effects Batman movie can be as successful as one that don't use any CGI at all! For example- Tim Burton's Batman films still resonate with viewers despite being a different Batman character than Nolan's!

Jul 24 - 03:25 PM

King  S.

King Simba

Okay, first of all all of the past seven Batman live action films have been rated PG-13, not PG. In fact, in the case of Batman Returns and The Dark Knight, the MPAA was actually critisized for being too soft with their ratings. Second of all, I believe Fincher's highest rated film so far is Social Network which is rated PG-13.

Finally, Nolan's previous two films before taking on Batman were rated R, so just because a director starts off with R-rated films doesn't mean he can't do PG-13 films, and as said before, Fincher has already proven that he can handle PG-13 films.

Jul 24 - 04:15 PM

Dave J

Dave J

If you mean "Inception" it was rated PG! And also Fincher doesn't seem like a director who'd be doing super hero films even if what you're sayying is true! I also thought Social Network was an R rating but notice I said "some" of Fincher's best films are "R" rated!

Jul 24 - 04:29 PM

bigbrother

Bigbrother .

Did Christopher Nolan seem like the kind of director who would do a super hero movie before he did one? How'd that turn out by the way?

Jul 24 - 06:45 PM

King  S.

King Simba

I said BEFORE he did Batman. Both Insomnia and Memento were rated R. Oh, and Inception was rated PG-13 (I got the box right next to me to prove it). As for Fincher not being fit for Batman, did Sam Raimi seem fit for Spiderman? Did Bryan Singer seem fit for X-men? Did Christopher Nolan seem fit for Batman? Heck, in Tim Burton's case the studio had to release the teasers for Batman 1989 early because of all the complaints people had over choosing a guy whose previous films were comedies. Granted, sometimes the transition from small dramas to big budget Blockbusters don't work out so well (Gavid Hood is a prime example), but then again I think Fincher has proven himself to be fit for Batman. Not only has he dabbled in several genres, from horror (Panic Room) to mystery (Zodiac) to drama (The Curious Case of Benjamin Button), he managed to make an award winning movie out of Facebook, as site that 90% of the time can best be described as a time waster.

Of course the real question is whether or not he'd want to do a superhero movie. Darren Aronofsky has been attached to serveral superhero movies in the past (including Batman before Nolan came along), so I think it's only a matter of time before he finally does one, but I'm not sure how Fincher feels about directing a superhero movie.

Jul 25 - 12:03 AM

Dave J

Dave J

I wasn't totally clear what you meant but as a result of rephrasing it you made your point clearer. But anyway, Sam Raimi did Darkman before he did the Spiderman movies meaning that if he didn't do it he would've done some other super hero movie. Also remembered Aronosky was attached to many super hero projects but it may be was a result of him wanting to do something that is rated "R" may have been a factor and by looking at the kind of movies he's made so far seem to be an unlikely candidate. And you're also talking about a director(Fincher) who demands many retakes to wanting to make his scenes to be perfect- that in itself would cost any movie company more money than what was intended since super hero films in general can be costly than say any average Fincher film. My point is that not all highly acclaimed directors are not into making super hero films particularly Scorsese, Coppolla and Spielberg(him being an exec to the Transformers movies doesn't even count)! I think that the reason Nolan did the Batman movies was because he thought of a different direction after seeing Burton's Batman movies and Donner's Superman- I read somwhere of one many interviews that he's done. I mean had he not seen those other super hero films he wouldn't have made it at all!

Jul 25 - 12:07 PM

Justin Montello

Justin Montello

don't forget The Prestige that was PG-13

Jul 27 - 01:23 PM

Namclay

Zach M.

Evil Dead.

Aug 21 - 04:47 PM

Mike Blair

Mike Blair

The reason I like TDKR better than TDK are 1.I didn't sense any danger for Batman in TDK. 2. I had no emotions when Racheal died I really didn't care. 3. Harvey Dents turn to evil was very unconvincing. TDKR was the total opposite in that respect. I was at the edge of my seat, fearful and emotional throughout the film.

Jul 23 - 05:19 PM

Jordan Ochonueve

Jordan Ochonueve

I disagree with your thoughts on Dent turning evil was unconvincing. The entire movie they were slowly building and showing glimpses of the fact that he had a dark side to him. This was similar to Bruce Wayne in Batman Begins when he wanted to kill Chill for killing his parents. The only problem was that instead of Rachel showing Bruce the light and telling him he was a coward for wanting to murder this man, Harvey didn't have a beacon of hope to cling onto. He didn't have Rachel, he didn't want to listen to Gordon because he felt betrayed by Gordon not willing to deal with the crooked cops in his unit. The first person to get his hands on Dent was Joker. Where Rachel was Batman's glimmer of hope and the person who showed him revenge wasn't necessarily justice, Joker was the person who told Dent Revenge is justice and creating chaos is fair. It plays to the idea that if you put someone in the right situation (i.e. the two fairies) people will show their nature and become either heroes or villains. The two fairies proved they were not willing to become killers to save their own lives (Batman's route) whereas Dent proved he was willing to kill to get his revenge. This is the Joker's general theme, he wanted to prove that Gotham had no hope and if pushed to the limit was like him. Gotham proved it wasn't, Harvey Dent proved he was like him. It's sort of like Hitler and his Nazis. We wonder how can people sit there and think that man is right in anything he does? Well, fact is, he was able to raise an entire army to follow his lead, the Joker was no different in what he did with Dent. Wow, I'm a total nerd. I need to get out more.

Jul 24 - 11:20 AM

Shannon Potratz

Shannon Potratz

Apparently there's only three directors in Hollywood for WB to choose from?

Jul 23 - 05:19 PM

Mike Blair

Mike Blair

I agree with everything you said.

Jul 23 - 05:20 PM

Peter W.

Peter Winters

I agree wih every you said but I only read the 1st word

Jul 30 - 10:01 AM

Jared Gullage

Jared Gullage

Agree for the most part with this. Bruce's motivations for being interested in Catwoman doesn't quite work for me, but otherwise, the movie is quite well done. I loved how it ended the series, and I thought Bane was very interesting. I loved how he talked in stark contrast to how he behaved and what he did.

Jul 23 - 06:15 PM

Jared Gullage

Jared Gullage

I think directors should leave this series alone for a long, long time. Nolan has left his mark on it for another ten or so years.

Jul 23 - 06:16 PM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

Indeed. Really the only way they got away with making another Spiderman so soon was that the final Raimi movie was hideous. How are you going to top Nolan's Batmans? Answer: You aren't, you have to let people forget about them and then play to a new generation.

Jul 23 - 06:34 PM

scifimark

scifi mark

Id be shocked if it goes more than 5 years without a new batman movie

Jul 26 - 01:03 PM

Bertram Krogh

Bertram Krogh

I agree, rebooting the films again would be an insult to Nolan himself. He made the series better by miles, and it should be long before another director should even try to fill his shoes. Nolanā??s Batman trilogy is, hands down, one of the best trilogies in movie history. Personally, I thought it was better than Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings trilogy.

Jul 24 - 08:20 AM

Zach N.

Zach Nix

To be honest, I find trilogies like The Samurai Trilogy from the 1950s to be far better than Nolan's Batman Trilogy.

Jul 24 - 09:58 AM

Dave J

Dave J

You guys are forgetting one thing Nolan personally doesn't own the 'character' for if Warner Brothers surface another Batman movie in a few years, it's your own choice whether or not you want to check it out or not for it can be concocted into something else with a whole new persona and it's going to make it's money by the new generation!

Jul 24 - 03:33 PM

Jared Gullage

Jared Gullage

I agree for the most part, EXCEPT Joker knew a lot more than most because he'd managed to bribe quite a few people in the right places. He knew where the helicopter and trucks would be. Batman knew where Harvey Dent was because he followed him or has a trace on him (he's not letting the man who allows him to retire get out of his site for too long). The Joker wasn't the only one to survive the bomb, but he expected it, so it didn't throw him off his game AND he was away from where the blast happened. Probably, he killed the others with him who survived before escaping while they were ducking and covering. Two-Face's conversion and quick recovery was a bit hard to buy, BUT when you've lost everything and you want to get to the person responsible (who was the Joker, but Joker convinced him he wasn't) then maybe that makes it a little more acceptable. The Joker claimed to be 'following orders' and Harvey was after the one behind it all, the people who let Joker out of the box, so to speak, and that was Moroni or the Russian I think? Just saying.

Jul 23 - 06:32 PM

King  S.

King Simba

I think it has more to do with Harvey finding out that there would be little satisfaction in killing the Joker. He was like a mad dog. He didn't kill Rachel out of revenger or hatred.

On top of that, there was no real way to make him suffer either, which is something Harvey wanted the people responsible to feel. It was well established through the film that he actually enjoyed pain and would be willing to die simply to prove a point.

Jul 23 - 11:37 PM

jake s.

jake suttles

thats not it at all. at some point harvey decided that all parties involved in rachel's death get a 50/50 chance to live or die just like her. he flips the coin for the joker too, it just lands tails so the joker gets to live.

Jul 24 - 01:11 PM

King  S.

King Simba

I'm not sure how much he really left up to chance, especially with his "I make my luck" remark to Rachel.

Jul 24 - 04:16 PM

jake s.

jake suttles

that was before the accident when his coin with heads on both sides man.....after he got the coin back from gordon one of the sides was scratched away making it true chance, and mirroring his physical and mental change.

Jul 25 - 07:50 AM

Keegan W.

Keegan W.

I would hope that no one was stupid enough to try to compete their own vision of Batman with Nolan's. Maybe someone like Fincher in twenty years could make at least ONE Batman movie that would be HALF as good as The Dark Knight. It'll be difficult to recreate characters so iconic or come up with something fresh after nine Batman movies. And I can only assume the Joker will be retired as a character as no one would want to compete with Ledger. It's possible that someone could try to reinvent the Riddler, but I have the feeling it would just come off as a poor attempt to make something Joker-ish. Godforbid a Robin movie is ever made, with or without Batman. The end of TDKR was great with Joseph Gordon Levitt, but there's no way someone could pull a whole Robin movie off. I like the way Nolan ended The Dark Knight Trilogy and hope that people agree and don't try to bring Batman back to the screen unless they're 100% SURE it will be as good as Nolan's (not likely).

Jul 23 - 06:33 PM

BarneyBhoy88

Connor B

I think Nolan left Batman to JLG just in case Warner Bros. do a Justice League film and Bale won't come back as Batman which I doubt he will after the overall success of the trilogy

Jul 24 - 09:58 AM

jake s.

jake suttles

honestly if you wanted to keep with the Nolan aesthetic robin wouldnt really fit, I think seeing gordon levitt in a Nightwing movie would be super badass though.

Jul 25 - 08:05 AM

mjprogue

Mike PArker

Disagree...heres exactly what should (and probably will) happen. The studio will deamand a new film almost immediately cause its a guaranteed money maker...they'll decide not to compete with Nolan's style and go for a more action oriented, less dark film. The movie will make a ton of money and all of Nolan's fanboys will whine and bitch about how horrible the whole thing is (while paying to watch it ten times anyway) and the majority of the movie going crowd will like it as much or more than Nolan's version simply because it will be more accessible...

Take Nolan's apologists (he is a pretty good director but a horrible casting agent and writer) out of the equation and these movies are making bank for the exact same reason the new Spider Man did...the average movie goer likes fights, explosions and cool toys...literally anyone could have directed this thing and 90% of the folks paying to see it wouldn't have cared.

Jul 29 - 05:59 PM

Valmordas

Val Mordas

Indeed. Really the only way they got away with making another Spiderman so soon was that the final Raimi movie was hideous. How are you going to top Nolan's Batmans? Answer: You aren't, you have to let people forget about them and then play to a new generation.

Jul 23 - 06:34 PM

scifimark

scifi mark

Id be shocked if it goes more than 5 years without a new batman movie

Jul 26 - 01:03 PM

This comment has been removed.

This comment has been removed.

BatMime

Philip Zamora

Just ignore him, he's trying to be controversial to stoke some fire, that's all.

Jul 24 - 06:19 AM

Ashutosh Kapoor

Ashutosh Kapoor

Damn man....your need help asap !!

Jul 24 - 08:36 AM

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