• R, 2 hr. 37 min.
  • Drama
  • Directed By:
    Kathryn Bigelow
    In Theaters:
    Jan 11, 2013 Wide
    On DVD:
    Mar 19, 2013
  • Columbia Pictures

Is This Film a Piece of War Propaganda?

I almost feel as if Peter Rainer of "The Christian Science Monitor" is really getting at something here: that torture is wrong, and that making a film that endorses torture as a means of attaining information is also morally ambiguous. That being said, do you think that "ZD30" is a form of war propaganda. I read an interesting article about this on "The Daily Kos" ( http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/05/1167497/-ZERO-DARK-THIRTY-More-Patriotic-Offal-from-Hollywood#), and it really got me thinking. As someone who found the film interesting and who tends to agree with the Tomatometer about 90% of the time, I am truly unsure. I personally believe that the official story concerning the bin Laden assassination was a lie. This is my opinion. Please respect it.

Note that only kind comment-sharing will be accepted here. All rude posts will be reported. Only civil debate will be tolerated.

Have fun.
Sean Aminali
12-14-2012 01:44 PM

Thread Replies

Please log in to participate in this forum.

John Abrahamsen

John Abrahamsen

Search for "Extortion 17" on Youtube and learn about how the REAL Seal Team Six was betrayed and murdered in Afghanistan on Aug 6, 2011. Did this film even have an "In memory" section in the credits to the DEAD members of Seal Team Six? Talk about propaganda!

May 19 - 04:16 PM

Thomas Kilroy

Thomas Kilroy

Do you really believe this story - come on THINK about it ....

Apr 22 - 10:35 PM

John Abrahamsen

John Abrahamsen

Search for "Extortion 17" on Youtube and learn about how the REAL Seal Team Six was betrayed and murdered in Afghanistan on Aug 6, 2011. Did this film even have an "In memory" section in the credits to the DEAD members of Seal Team Six? Talk about propaganda!

May 19 - 04:19 PM

Dylan  J.

Dylan Jones

Lol "Only civil debate will be tolerated." Well, judging by some of the comments below, that statement was a load of bullshit.

Apr 17 - 09:49 PM

Diego Tutweiller

The Artist Formerly Known as Tutweiller

This isn't Nazi fucking Germany. There's no state-run media outlets that make shit like this. If someone makes a movie that glorifies violence or torture (which, in my opinion, this does not), it's their own damn opinion, not PROPAGANDA.

Apr 14 - 05:33 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

Actually, this IS Nazi Fucking Germany, considering this country is being run by corporations! ZDP was made for 2 reasons: one, to exonerate the CIA of all war crimes perpetrated since 9/11 and two, to PROFIT off this red-meat revenge mentality that's been instilled in the American public by a mass media that completely lacks transparency.

Also, you didn't see THE INVISIBLE WAR, did you? It's about the epidemic of rape in the U.S. military, and before you say that one movie has nothing to do with the other, they are about human rights violations! TORTURE IS ILLEGAL AND WRONG, and considering the fact all of the detainees down in Guantanamo Bay have been on a hunger strike for more than 50 days after being imprisoned for years without a trial, this has now become ghoulish and heinous beyond rationality and purpose.

Plus, I served in the military and had a Secret security clearance: ZERO DARK PROPAGANDA IS 100% BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Apr 16 - 08:51 AM

Isaac T.

Isaac Tetreault

Im glad I'm in Canada. And not nazi germany america!

May 5 - 12:03 AM

Justin D.

Justin Downing

You have so much wrong, there are no raging tyrants in America and the CIA is not the devil. Before you call me a government lover or under the influence of Propaganda let me address your issues. 9/11 was not faked, torture is wrong,yes, this does not glorify it, you can not compare the Nazi's to are government today, there nothing alike. And have you even seen the movie?

May 7 - 08:38 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

When did I say that 9/11 was faked? Plus, you didn't address the issue of the military rape culture that the Pentagon has covered up for seven fucking decades.

May 21 - 09:27 AM

Alex Schuettenberg

Alex Schuettenberg

Torture is wrong. Killing innocent people is wrong. Sometimes it seems like you accept the one in order to avoid the other. Many of the decisions we make are not black and white. As for "endorsing" torture I didn't see anybody endorsing torture.

Apr 4 - 05:46 PM

Frank Kennedy Jr.

Frank Kennedy Jr.

While I haven't seen this film nor do I plan too, I have a problem with the Gov. claiming that OBL was KIA or whatever term they used!
Seals tend to do there own intelligence gathering going back to Vietnam.
I find the alleged shooting and burial at sea quite suspect for several reasons, but mainly due to what could be acquired from OBL under interrogation by Seal Team 6 or any intelligence agency! I just don't buy it.
I think he was alive and our Gov. used Extreme Rendition to gather whatever intel he may have had!
Of course this is only my opinion.

Mar 26 - 05:23 AM

Justin D.

Justin Downing

The thing with Holly Wood and true stories is that most stories in general are over exaggerated and not true, there is no way to make a completely true story and people should stop regarding movies as documentaries there simply not, thats why it says based on a true story.

Mar 23 - 02:41 PM

Chase The Lost

Chase: The Lost Trollfighter

Yikes, this is a hot topic. Well, I personally believe that this is nothing more than fictional propaganda. I apologize if I offend anyone, but this is how I feel. Films like this that glorify lies are the part of the reasons why the rest of the world hates Americans. We don't do ourselves any favors.

Mar 13 - 02:55 PM

Migs Rodriguez

Migs Rodriguez

these arguments and speculations are hilarious.....

Mar 11 - 11:55 AM

Cancel YourCable

Cancel YourCable

This video is a piece of war propaganda for sure, its completely fictional with no reality to it what so ever.

Jan 28 - 09:50 PM

Phatigue

alejandro sacajawea

OMG this was sooo bad, seriously people??? Just because its supposedly how osama was killed doesnt mean everybody needs to be all "wooo america USA USA USA!!!!" Im tired of this fake ass patriotism mob mentality.. its okay to say this movie sucked its completely fictional anyways.. no one will think your a terrorits... btw no such thing as seal team 6 LOL.. im so ashamed to be american when crap like this comes out and people rally behind it never to question why news outlets didnt allow news of Osama bin ladens death in 2002 come to american.. do some research before you believe this film is accurate..

Mar 1 - 04:40 PM

Lee Augustus

Lee Augustus

dumbfuck

Mar 2 - 03:37 PM

Phatigue

alejandro sacajawea

lol nice, thanks for helping me make my point.. say what you want; no one here was a member of this fictional seal team so ya cant disprove the truth. only perpetuate this hollywood sham.

Mar 6 - 09:39 PM

Justin D.

Justin Downing

How can you prove its untrue? You have no basis for your argument.

Mar 23 - 02:47 PM

Phatigue

alejandro sacajawea

this film is based on a story that hasnt even been declassified. so everything in this film is speculation (bullshit). hollywood made it that should be enough to call this inaccurate.

Mar 24 - 08:17 PM

John Abrahamsen

John Abrahamsen

Search for "Extortion 17" on Youtube and learn about how the REAL Seal Team Six was betrayed and murdered in Afghanistan on Aug 6, 2011. Did this film even have an "In memory" section in the credits to the DEAD members of Seal Team Six? Talk about propaganda!

May 19 - 04:17 PM

Frank Stallone

Frank Stallone

In REALITY, the use of torture hindered and delayed the capture of Bin Laden. Wake up, Americans.
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/5/4/former_military_interrogator_matthew_alexander_despite

Jan 25 - 06:30 PM

Blaze Firestarter

Blaze Firestarter

Weird. This movie doesn't mention at all about how 9/11 was an inside job. Fake.

Jan 12 - 07:09 PM

Alex Maverick

Alex Maverick

That's probably because it wasn't an inside job, dipshit.

Jan 13 - 11:49 AM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

Alex, you are a fucking dipshit lemming who believes everything you see on a giant screen and you are a pinhead because of it. Read some history books, do some fucking research instead of being a fucking idiot who believes everything they see on the screen. FUCKING LEMMING1

Jan 13 - 02:30 PM

Alex Maverick

Alex Maverick

I love pissing this guy off. And I'm damn good at it, too :)

Jan 13 - 08:10 PM

Taylor B.

Taylor Born

So one cannot come to the conclusion that 9-11 was not an inside job by doing there own research, because that is blatantly false.

Jan 20 - 10:48 AM

Justin D.

Justin Downing

Mick, there is no proof that it was inside job and it is very disrespectful to call it one because thousands of people died on that day, and thousands more protecting us in our overseas conflict caused by this event.

Mar 23 - 02:51 PM

Phatigue

alejandro sacajawea

calling it anything else other than a controlled demolition is disrespecting those people that died that day. it has already been scientifically proven that a thermite reaction took place in those buildings that day. btw ive been to numerous gatherings where survivors of 9/11 who were in fact in the buildings as demolition charges went off in the basement.. i dont blame many of you for being this oblivious though, ive been a welder for 5 years so i know the melting point of steel and the amount of pressure that would be needed to create the so called "pan-cake" effect; but even then it was a text book false flag terrorist attack. i mean if you went to school and read about the gulf of tonkin in history class you shouldnt have a problem believing its an inside job.. but sadly either most of you didnt finish high school or you had your thumb up your ass instead of listening to the history teacher. either way its sad that you actually think news outlets report facts.. every single thing on television is entertainment, its all about ratings and never about informing the sheeple.

Mar 24 - 08:35 PM

Justin D.

Justin Downing

So your saying the government purposely killed americans? Where is the logic in that?

May 7 - 08:41 PM

Lee Augustus

Lee Augustus

stupid fuck

Jan 23 - 02:45 PM

Rich Gehring Jr.

Rich Gehring Jr.

Weird Blaze it doesn't mention your uncanny resemblance to actor Chris Burke either, your right it must be fake.

Jan 25 - 09:43 PM

Phatigue

alejandro sacajawea

OMG this was sooo bad, seriously people??? Just because its supposedly how osama was killed doesnt mean everybody needs to be all "wooo america USA USA USA!!!!" Im tired of this fake ass patriotism mob mentality.. its okay to say this movie sucked its completely fictional anyways.. no one will think your a terrorits... btw no such thing as seal team 6 LOL.. im so ashamed to be american when crap like this comes out and people rally behind it never to question why news outlets didnt allow news of Osama bin ladens death in 2002 come to american.. do some research before you believe this film is accurate..

Mar 1 - 04:34 PM

John Abrahamsen

John Abrahamsen

Search for "Extortion 17" on Youtube and learn about how the REAL Seal Team Six was betrayed and murdered in Afghanistan on Aug 6, 2011. Did this film even have an "In memory" section in the credits to the DEAD members of Seal Team Six? Talk about propaganda!

May 19 - 04:18 PM

James Smoot

James Smoot

This isn't propaganda. The raid isn't depicted as much of a battle, it's just a home invasion, hit-job done by professionals who have a lot of training, experience and resources. Unarmed people are shot. The bad guy doesn't have an awesome demise. As for 9-11 being an inside job, some people need to stop and think about what it means when Al Qaeda publicly claims responsibility for it. In fact, AQ leadership is quite indignant when Iranian president Ahmedinejad claims that 9-11 was an inside job. Not to mention the amount of counterfit phone calls that would have had to been made from the 9-11 victims while the attacks were in progress; simulating hundreds of people's voices and having accurate personal information to use in those phone calls would be impossible. Some people are just flat-out stupid about conspiracy theories.

Apr 12 - 08:20 AM

John Abrahamsen

John Abrahamsen

Search for "Extortion 17" on Youtube and learn about how the REAL Seal Team Six was betrayed and murdered in Afghanistan on Aug 6, 2011. Did this film even have an "In memory" section in the credits to the DEAD members of Seal Team Six? Talk about propaganda!

May 19 - 04:18 PM

Isaac T.

Isaac Tetreault

Haha! 9/11 an inside job! Oh your serious.... Stupid.

May 5 - 12:06 AM

Mongoose Maelstrom

Mongoose Maelstrom

I've seen the film and can't take anyone seriously who thinks it was propaganda. It certainly raises lots of real life questions and issues to debate but it leaves you to make your own decisions. Perhaps the propaganda critics should get in touch with those who didn't like the film because it didn't take a side or push a message.

Jan 12 - 09:16 AM

hollis m.

hollis mills

right with ya

Jan 12 - 01:50 PM

Jakub Gronowski

Jakub Gronowski

what i've noticed is that the people that tell me its propaganda are the pretentious people i know that think they know all about world politics and they haven't even seen the film..i had a buddy of mine tell me he doesn't wanna see because it's propaganda..but how can someone say that without seeing it?

Jan 12 - 06:28 PM

Chris Sky

Chris Sky

People who haven't seen it can call it propaganda, because it's a "Documentary" of a PHONY EVENT! If somebody goes to see it because they like the director and they enjoy it as a movie... good for them... but to try and call something that glorifies and reinforces a lie anything BUT propaganda, is denial at best.

Jan 12 - 06:49 PM

Zach Thomas

Zach Idiculla

It's not a documentary, just to be clear.

Jan 13 - 11:42 AM

Blaze Firestarter

Blaze Firestarter

Of course it's propaganda. It assumes Bin Laden had something to do with 9/11 which he didn't. The psychopaths orchestrated it all just like many other events in history. The only thing we can do is pity the psychopaths for refusing to or not being able to be ok with who they truly are. Immortal spiritual beings of pure love.

Jan 12 - 07:01 PM

Phatigue

alejandro sacajawea

agreed.... Osama died in 2002 but our news outlets were told not to run that news... eh people actually think the news is to inform the public LMFAO hah its on television which only shows entertainment..

Mar 1 - 04:40 PM

Taylor B.

Taylor Born

This is not propaganda, now Act of Valor however....

Jan 20 - 10:49 AM

Justin D.

Justin Downing

Thank you for being one with a right mind on this subject.

Mar 23 - 02:53 PM

Dave M.

Dave Mart

This was a complete propaganda, no doubt about it.

Jan 12 - 09:00 AM

Alan Brizan

Alan Brizan

some films are about accuracy (or purity) and not about message. i noticed alot of the presidential bullshit was absent from this film... thats why politicians jumped at the opportunity to put it in.

Jan 11 - 07:57 AM

Alston Thomas

Alston Thomas

A lot of discussion is centered around this film tagging it as anti-war and anti-American. This may all be true. I don't know what the producers' intent was. However, I think people are putting far too much emphasis on the whole torture element. Torture is an inevitable process instituted by every country since the beginning of civilization. The film may not necessarily be painting it as necessary due process or condoning it as unethical. Rather, it's likely portraying it as an occurance in the actual manhunt that was conducted. Focusing on the film's alleged message on torture is misguided and far from the film's purpose.

Jan 10 - 12:09 PM

Chris Sky

Chris Sky

Not only is this film a glaring example of pro war propaganda funded by the military industrial complex and sponsored by the US Government DIRECTLY. It's should be a lesson to all of you in the Pentagon's ongoing DISINFO campaign against Americans known as "Perception Management." In Little kiddie terms. This means that they use things like movies to REINFORCE OFFICIAL LIES, like the entire "Bin LAden Raid" story.

Jan 9 - 09:08 PM

Glen Mcbeth

Glen Mcbeth

Idiot.

Jan 10 - 06:23 PM

Blaze Firestarter

Blaze Firestarter

Chris Sky is A LOT smarter than you pal.

Jan 12 - 07:06 PM

Lee Augustus

Lee Augustus

shut up, shithead

Jan 23 - 02:43 PM

Dick Travis

Mick Travis

You are the idiot; he's absolutely right, and I had a top clearance in the military.

Jan 12 - 08:29 PM

Zach Thomas

Zach Idiculla

And I was President of the United States once as well.

Jan 13 - 11:43 AM

Alex Maverick

Alex Maverick

Oh, I guess that makes you the expert.

Jan 13 - 08:18 PM

Alston Thomas

Alston Thomas

Perception Management? Kinda sounds like the Matrix....
You must be the one....

Jan 11 - 01:43 PM

Chris Sky

Chris Sky

That was original. Or maybe you could simply google the term "perception management" and see that it is OFFICIAL government policy, and for a long time now.

Jan 12 - 06:37 AM

Chris Sky

Chris Sky

try searching "bin laden died in 2001" and see ALL of the different sources from CIA, to foreign governments to phsyicians, to TV NEWS BROADCASTS all saying the same thing. Bin Laden died in 2001! But you're made to believe that Obama the messiah, Hilary and company sat in a little room in the white house and watched a "live satelite feed" of a coordinated raid inside hostile territory for a man that eluded the entire resources of the US military for 10 years! The story was so unbelievable they spent tens of millions using a trendy director to make a pathetic movie to try and REINFORCE the LIE that "Obama killed Osama". Aka Perception Management.

Jan 12 - 06:41 AM

Zach Thomas

Zach Idiculla

I did search, and found NOTHING CIA related. You're free to post actual links, you know.

Jan 13 - 11:45 AM

Chris Sky

Chris Sky

perception management

From Department of Defense

Definition: (DOD) Actions to convey and/or deny selected information and indicators to foreign audiences to influence their emotions, motives, and objective reasoning; and to intelligence systems and leaders at all levels to influence official estimates, ultimately resulting in foreign behaviors and official actions favorable to the originator's objectives. In various ways, perception management combines truth projection, operations security, cover and deception, and psychological operations.
See also psychological operations.

Jan 12 - 06:44 AM

Mercedes Stanton

Mercedes Stanton

The government has never lied to you. Democracy works. You are all free. Movies and video games are just entertainment. Go wash your car. Feel good. Feel smart. Go post your opnion somewhere. What you have to say is very important.

Jan 12 - 04:45 PM

Blaze Firestarter

Blaze Firestarter

At least it may get some thinking. That is something.

Jan 12 - 07:06 PM

Chris Sky

Chris Sky

@ Zach... The name of the CIA operative who had been saying Bin Laden was dead for YEARS was Robert Baer. As well, French intelligence leaked a report through a french newspaper in year 2000 saying that CIA met with Bin Laden in a hospital where he was on kidney dialysis treatment for marfan syndrome, and even possibly hep c. He didn't have long to live which is why he was the PERFECT man to blame for 911, and justify the invasion of the middle east. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/01/afghanistan.terrorism

Jan 13 - 12:58 PM

Chris Sky

Chris Sky

also Zach check out what this dude said about Bin Laden.. Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik deputy assistant secretary of State under 3 separate administrations, (Nixon, Ford, Carter) former Navy captain, and current consultant for department of defense. I'll give you a hint... The good doctor said Bin Laden was DEAD for a long time and 911 was false flag!

Jan 13 - 01:12 PM

Norma Sassone

Norma Sassone

Merecedes - I love you!

Jan 25 - 02:51 PM

Lee Augustus

Lee Augustus

Fucking retard

Feb 26 - 05:21 PM

Cole Jaeger

Cole Jaeger

I think you should watch the movie first

Dec 26 - 09:35 AM

Anthony Felix

Anthony Felix

Why would the critics get paid to say the movies really good? Maybe you are the stupid one Kent.

Dec 24 - 11:57 AM

Anthony Felix

Anthony Felix

So does this movie glorify Obama or not? My parents do not want to see it because, the movie glorifies Obama.

Dec 23 - 07:14 PM

Facebook User

Facebook User

FUCK THIS PIECE OF SHIT MOVIE NOTHING NUT LIES AND PROPGANDA. ANYONE WHO BELIVES THE U.S. KILLED BIN LADEN ARE FUCKING MORONS. WE NEVER SAW A BODY AND BIN LADEN WAS DEAD YEARS BEFORE THE U.S. CLAIMED THEY KILLED. SO THIS SHITTY MOVIE SAYS ITS BASED ON FACT WHEN ITS JUST A WORK OF FICTION CLAIMING TO BE BASED ON TRUE EVENTS. THIS MOVIE DOES NOT DESERVE A NEAR PERFECT SCORE AND FUCK THAT OLD SKANK KATHRYN BIGELOW GET YOUR BITCH ASS BACK IN THE KITCHEN AND STOP TRYING TO CLAIM YOUR A GREAT DIRECTOR YOU SAGGY TIT OLD HAG UGLY CUNT.

Dec 21 - 06:43 PM

Anthony Felix

Anthony Felix

Excuse me, have you seen this movie. If this movie is so crappy, why does it have a high score? We are not morons if we thought the US killed Bin Laden and Kathryn Bigelow is a great director! Maybe you are the moron here, dick. I am going to see this movie because it looks awesome :D

Dec 22 - 08:09 AM

Anthony Felix

Anthony Felix

Excuse me, have you seen this movie? If this is movie is so crappy, why does it have a high score? Also, we are not morons if we thought the US killed Bin Laden. Plus, Kathryn Bigelow is a great director! You are just a moron who judges a movie before even seeing it. I for one think that the movie looks awesome and is Oscar worthy. So why don't you shut up and let people who are going to see it, enjoy it. Oh, and one thing, a movie that is based on a true story, does not have to get the facts straight, the movie can give us examples of what that event was like (torture scenes without restraint). Dare I say more, I think I said enough!

Dec 22 - 08:15 AM

Alan Brizan

Alan Brizan

i think the facts are too straight.. and too much truth could pain some politicians who stand on war-message real estate.

Jan 11 - 08:08 AM

Alan Brizan

Alan Brizan

i think the facts are too straight.. and too much truth could pain some politicians who stand on war-message real estate.

Jan 11 - 08:08 AM

Mercedes Stanton

Mercedes Stanton

Anthony Felix you are so smart and bold. You should become a teacher.

Jan 12 - 04:48 PM

Blaze Firestarter

Blaze Firestarter

lol!

Jan 12 - 07:08 PM

Timothy J M.

Timothy J Milan

Bigelow and Boal are smart people, they wouldnt make a gung-ho america fuck yeah movie. The hurt locker was smart, and if you think and alayze it, it isnt just a meatheaded bomb disposal guy putting others lives at risk just cause(A rambo type of action hero, if you will).

Nothing I've read says its pro-america either, so there is that as well. im so excited for this movie.

Dec 20 - 10:35 AM

Ben Haworth

Ben Haworth

This film contains intense scenes of torture without someone condoning the actions. The effect is that you get the truth: torture happens and it's used without restraint. The film contains a very long waterboarding scene and shows not a single person castigating the actions. This film makes you question the lengths people will go get just one guy. It's incredibly bleak and unflinching in it's view of the war on terror. It's probably one of the most anti-American films in a long time.

Dec 17 - 10:43 AM

Michael Casey

Michael Casey

From my experience Kathryn Bigelow has always shown herself to be strictly apolitical when it came to subjects that are so polarizing in America. To this day people on both the right and left still argue whether or not "The Hurt Locker", was a pro war or anti war piece of film-work. The truth is it was neither which drove both sides to hate the film because it didn't fit with in their personal political leanings

Dec 17 - 04:39 AM

Christopher256G

Christopher Greffin

Well The Huffington Post named ZDT the best movie of 2012 and that place is hardly a bashtion of pro-war pro-torture propogandists. Even if it is propoganda a little whose to say propoganda can't be entertaining riveting stuff that makes you think. I'm liberal as they come and am excited as hell for this film.

Dec 16 - 08:51 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

I won't try to talk anyone out of going to see it, and part of me really wants to. I just can't support it after what I've learned over the past several years, and make no mistake. It's the worst kind of propaganda no matter how awesome it is, or how many mainstream publications praise it, liberal or right-wing. If you're a liberal I'd like to invite you to visit my blog and watch the videos and documentaries I've compiled. I'm a liberal too, but anti-establishment, and there are some things people should now about our system that transcend party divisions, and more importantly about the 2-party system itself, and how it's become the ultimate tool for manipulation, serving the same neo-con agenda under either group. Just different language and packaging‚?¶. The videos on my list will blow your mind. Just watch the first 10 minutes of each. If you decide to watch more, then you can make up your own mind about the content, and share the information if you think it's valid and valuable. As for Zero Dark Thirty, people should view the film the same way they do the Passion Of The Christ: as a work for FICTION. But that's just my opinion and I'm a whacko according to most on this thread;)

http://progresshawk.posterous.com/free-must-see-perspective-altering-videos-and
progresshawk.wordpress.com

Dec 17 - 01:22 AM

Christopher Kulik

Christopher Kulik

If you think it's going to be "worse propaganda" than ACT OF VALOR, you are out of you damn mind!

Dec 17 - 07:22 AM

Christopher Kulik

Christopher Kulik

If you think it's going to be "worse propaganda" than ACT OF VALOR, then you must be outta your damn mind. Yes, I served for 10 years and genuinely believe that bin Laden died years ago and the public will no doubt eat up this crap as true when it's just a movie. I shall still be watching for my own interpretation, regardless of what you say, even if I agree with a lot of it.

Dec 17 - 07:27 AM

montezbush1

Montez Bush

You mean the false, biased things you've learned? I read the New Yorker interview and he clarifies all of that. Don't be an idiot who believes everything he reads. SEE It for yourself.

Dec 17 - 01:16 PM

Blaze Firestarter

Blaze Firestarter

Yes, because what you've learned is much better. Sources like the New Yorker, owned by opulent psychopaths with a vested interest in keeping you stupid are absolutely great.

Jan 12 - 07:30 PM

Zach Thomas

Zach Idiculla

"go to my blog" -- Justin Hawkes

Or how about not? This is a movie discussion site, folks.

Jan 13 - 11:48 AM

Paul Werker

Paul Werker

Torture violates the following conventions:

1. Third and fourth Geneva conventions

2. The United Nations Convention Against Torture and other Degrading treatment or punishment

3. The Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.

This film treats torture with an considerable pro-torture bias - even going against actual findings of the ineffectiveness of torture to depict it as effective. Maybe hagiographic works regarding actual historical events like this are common in North Korea or China (albeit with poorer production values), but in democracy that claims to respect human rights, while censorship of such movies would be wrong, they should be only the subject of ridicule.

I refer you to this review of the movie:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/14/zero-dark-thirty-cia-propaganda

Dec 16 - 06:25 PM

Ocram Immorto

Ocram Immorto

Exactly, which is why America was not a hero finding Bin Laden, I'm taking this film as a work of fiction based on the hunt for Bin Laden, this movie could have the same exact plot and have a terrorist that isn't even Bin Laden (completely different person) who would have a different political agenda. And that I believe Ms. Bigelow's point from this film was that the lengths you go to find this man you want to kill, it makes you a monster after the long period of years for hunting down and violently forcing info from detainee's.

Jan 23 - 05:13 PM

Dylan P.

Dylan P

I will only see this movie if it is free of nationalistic, brainwashing, neo conservative, islamphobic, fox news, tea bagger, reactionary, right wing empty headed bullshit. It sounds like a interesting story but I mean if it is filled with flag waving, us vs. them ( Islam vs. Christian America), nationalist bull then I am gone. Since this was Obamas call then this might not occur and its from Hollywood but I just have no interest in a movie with stuff like that. If it is liberal or neutral I am interested but if it is right wing propaganda I am out.

Dec 16 - 04:18 PM

Paul Werker

Paul Werker

I regret to inform you that Obama has continued nearly every aspect of Bush's so-called "war on terror" plus pursued measures that even Bush would have not considered - such as extrajudicial drone-strike executions that take out lots of noncombatants, including children.

Dec 16 - 06:29 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

Paul is correct. I was very excited about Obama back in the day, but he turned out to be the most aggressive neo-con imaginable. Observe how they trick you with the false left vs right system: Bush starts a war. Then Obama "withdraws" the troops, and "draws down" our forces in Iraq. Only what they don't tell you is that the 50,000 troops who were pulled out of Iraq were sent to Afghanistan, and the were replaced in Iraq by 100,000 military contractors. So really, he tripled the amount of boots on the ground in Iraq, added more to Afghanistan and today we're fighting and bombing and killing and dying in 8 different countries. This isn't just the same policy, but it's a major ESCALATION of the Bush doctrine. It's crazy but this is how broken the system really is. The neo-con agenda is that of the corporate military industrial complex that is in control of everything in our country via the world bank and federal reserve (It's a long story but I'm going to recommend some videos).

And yes‚?¶ Obama's drone strikes are killing THOUSANDS of innocents. Don't dismiss that reality. We're living under the same horrific unforgivable foreign policy, only it's even worse now. Just being packaged and sold to us differently, like I said‚?¶

I'm not a fan of Alex Jones and I often disagree with him, but he has just a couple pieces of work that I think are very done. "The Obama Deception" does a perfect, non-partisan, non-hateful job of demonstrating how similar Obama is to W, and how he's exceeded the military aggression from the previous administration. This is very upsetting and disappointing indeed because Obama did seem pretty awesome. But people have to start waking up to this reality or we're going to be facing some real hardships in this country very soon. Think it's bad now? Wait until our currency finally fails because we printed too much and expanded our empire too far.

Here is "The Obama Deception"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw

Here is an excellent video where Ron Paul explains exactly who the neoconservatives are and calls them out by name. Highly recommended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o6VKD1Eg-8

Here are all of my favorite videos and documentaries that I thin everyone should see and form their own opinions about:

http://progresshawk.posterous.com/free-must-see-perspective-altering-videos-and

Best

Dec 17 - 01:33 AM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

Paul is correct. I was very excited about Obama back in the day, but he turned out to be the most aggressive neo-con imaginable. Observe how they trick you with the false left vs right system: Bush starts a war. Then Obama "withdraws" the troops, and "draws down" our forces in Iraq. Only what they don't tell you is that the 50,000 troops who were pulled out of Iraq were sent to Afghanistan, and the were replaced in Iraq by 100,000 military contractors.

So really, he tripled the amount of boots on the ground in Iraq, added more to Afghanistan and today we're fighting and bombing and killing and dying in 8 different countries. This isn't just the same policy, but it's a major ESCALATION of the Bush doctrine. It's crazy but this is how broken the system really is. The neo-con agenda is that of the corporate military industrial complex that is in control of everything in our country via the world bank and federal reserve (It's a long story but I'm going to recommend some videos).

And yes... Obama's drone strikes are killing THOUSANDS of innocents. Don't dismiss that reality. We're living under the same horrific unforgivable foreign policy, only it's even worse now. Just being packaged and sold to us differently, as I mentioned.

I'm not a fan of Alex Jones and I often disagree with him, but he has just a couple pieces of work that I think are very well done. "The Obama Deception" does a perfect, non-partisan, non-hateful job of demonstrating how similar Obama is to W, and how he's exceeded the military aggression from the previous administration. This is very upsetting and disappointing indeed because Obama did seem pretty awesome. But people have to start waking up to this reality or we're going to be facing some real hardships in this country very soon. Think it's bad now? Wait until our currency finally fails because we printed too much and expanded our empire too far.

Here is "The Obama Deception"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw

Here is an excellent video where Ron Paul explains exactly who the neoconservatives are and calls them out by name. Highly recommended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o6VKD1Eg-8

Here are all of my favorite videos and documentaries that I thin everyone should see and form their own opinions about:

http://progresshawk.posterous.com/free-must-see-perspective-altering-videos-and

Best

Dec 17 - 01:36 AM

Efrain S.

Efrain Sanchez

You literally have no life? Right?

Dec 22 - 08:12 AM

Thom Stone

Thom Stone

dylan, i just read the entire review. i can't comment on my own experience of the movie since i haven't seen it, but it's mentioned that they stay very focused on just hunting for osama. politics are ignored. the war is ignored. i think it's safe to assume all 'nationalistic, brainwashing, neo conservative, islamphobic, fox news, tea bagger, reactionary, right wing empty headed bullshit' is not in this movie. i feel people would be giving this movie lower ratings if it had.

i read another review that also stated it stays very focused on just these people in the movie trying to kill osama. it's not a documentary though and some details are adjusted, but it still excludes all that stuff you mentioned (if it did, i myself wouldn't be interested in it either).

Dec 17 - 01:49 AM

Thom Stone

Thom Stone

the review this thread is about states:

In the Filkins article, Bigelow adds: "[T]he film doesn't have an agenda, and it doesn't judge. I wanted a boots-on-the-ground experience." But by not enlarging or contextualizing the meaning of the waterboarding scenes, by avoiding any sense of political partisanship, Bigelow is, in effect, judging. It's difficult to look at these sequences in a vacuum, which is how she wants us to respond to them. I am not arguing that she should have denounced waterboarding per se. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that these brutalities helped bring down bin Laden. This is a possibility that antitorture advocates on both sides of the aisle, if they are honest with themselves, must acknowledge. The problem I have with "Zero Dark Thirty" is that, for the sake of a "boots-on-the-ground" experience, it mucks around in matters of great gravity without ever really getting its hands dirty.

this negative criticism makes me want to see the film more. i'm glad it seems to let us think about these actions ourselves without interjecting lots of issues for the characters to talk about.

Dec 17 - 01:54 AM

Michael Kavusak

Michael Kavusak

I have seen the movie and whats great about it is the objectivity you speak of. Especially during the water boarding scene, it allows the audience to make its own judgments on whether or not it was right or wrong. For the sake of spoilers I wont reveal the results of the scene or why they are water boarding him but the movie's position on the subject is simply that water boarding happened. They give plenty of context to why they are doing it and to who they are doing it to. They dont just show water boarding for the sake of water boarding.

Jan 10 - 12:18 AM

Nick Shaw

Nick Shaw

Agreed. I was shocked when I saw the film that people thought the film was "pro-torture". I thought they depicted it as a horrible thing. And the initial information given by said "torture" never lead directly to finding the courier. It mostly fueled Maya's obsession with a specific target that was given by other detainees and eventually information that had been previously found.

Jan 12 - 09:40 PM

Ez Listening

Ez Listening

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/14/zero-dark-thirty-cia-propaganda

Dec 16 - 01:19 PM

Jaime Lannister

Jaime Lannister

If the director did her job correctly, she won't be "endorsing" any position in the film, merely tell a story

Dec 15 - 12:08 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

I agree and I bet she did the job superbly. But I (with respect) that it doesn't change that the story is an almost completely fabricated lie, and that there is a very clear and obvious agenda behind the project itself. This is a propaganda film in EVERY sense and I am very disappointed in all of the critics that praised the movie without calling out its transparency. But was is a movie critic anyway? Their not beacons of truth or investigative journalists, but I personally feel like that has an effect on the quality of a film. It turns me off when I get the "propaganda film vibe" because it feels so controlled and manufactured, even if it's superbly crafted. But that's just me.

Dec 15 - 01:27 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

I agree and I bet she did the job superbly. But I would say (with respect) that it doesn't change that the story is an almost completely fabricated lie, and that there is a very clear and obvious agenda behind the project itself. This is a propaganda film in EVERY sense and I am very disappointed in all of the critics that praised the movie without calling out its transparency. But was is a movie critic anyway? Their not beacons of truth or investigative journalists, but I personally feel like that has an effect on the quality of a film. It turns me off when I get the "propaganda film vibe" because it feels so controlled and manufactured, even if it's superbly crafted. But that's just me.

Dec 15 - 01:28 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

I agree and I bet she did the job superbly. But I would say (with respect) that it doesn't change that the story is an almost completely fabricated lie, and that there is a very clear and obvious agenda behind the project itself. This is a propaganda film in EVERY sense and I am very disappointed in all of the critics that praised the movie without calling out its transparency. But what is a movie critic anyway? They're not beacons of truth or investigative journalists, but I personally feel like that has an affect on the quality of a film. It turns me off when I get the "propaganda film vibe" because it feels so controlled, manufactured and marketed, even if it's superbly crafted. But that's just me.

Dec 15 - 01:30 PM

montezbush1

Montez Bush

*sigh*...The Ugly Truth is misogynistic propaganda...This is NOT propaganda.

Dec 15 - 02:56 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

What ugly truth are you referring to? Who is talking about misogyny? Yes it is propaganda. How is it not propaganda? It's propagating a lie, and designed to paint a favorable picture of our military operations, encouraging support. That would be propaganda. The white house has a very close relationship with Hollywood, and the military makes all of it's resources freely available for pro-war films. This is nothing new. It is classic propaganda. Where is your argument?

Dec 15 - 03:38 PM

Jaime Lannister

Jaime Lannister

I don't see why it is required for there to be excessive hand wringing in order for it to not be propaganda. As I understand it from reviews and from interviews with the actors in the film, the torture in the film doesn't even lead to any intelligence that the characters use anyway. I suppose it would do some liberal hearts feel better if there were characters yelling "this is wrong!" but I think we can let this film speak for itself as to what it wants to tell us. I'll wait until I see this next week until I make any judgment upon it.

Dec 16 - 09:08 PM

Glen Mcbeth

Glen Mcbeth

And I bet that in truth, when it really happened, no one was there shouting it was wrong. it would have made the CIA look better if there had been people in the room doing that- but the movie did not portray it.

Jan 10 - 12:28 PM

Marc H.

Marc Hochman

Hopefully the blu-ray will contain a deleted scene at the end where Maya and Dan are gazing out on the orange vista of the Afghan desert, and Maya removes her aviators and says in her best David Caruso voice, "We thought we were torturing them, but maybe .. we were just torturing our own values and morality." Aaaaand scene. (End credits roll as The Who's "We Won't Get Fooled Again" blares."

Jan 11 - 07:50 AM

Mercedes Stanton

Mercedes Stanton

Where did the money come from?

Jan 12 - 04:54 PM

Mercedes Stanton

Mercedes Stanton

Where did the money come from?

Jan 12 - 04:54 PM

Kent Fšllman

Kent Fšllman

Its another bullshit propaganda movie. Bin Laden died 10 years ago. Sad to see some people say: its the best movie of 2012 ! Are they payed to say that ? Or are they really that stupid ? OMG

Dec 15 - 03:08 AM

Cody H.

Cody Halpert

So you know for a fact that Bin Laden was killed ten years ago? Or are you just a conspiracy nut case? I think it's leaning towards the second one.

Dec 15 - 10:14 AM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

Do you have an actual argument against this idea, or are you limited to throwing around labels like "conspiracy nut?" The term conspiracy theorist was actually invented by the same propagandists that came up with terms like "Axis of Evil" or phrases like "Cut and Run." You can actually track this. These terms and phrases are fed into the national discussion through our media, and I think it's just adorable when people think they're too smart to be affected or controlled by this. So let me ask you again. Is there a part of this idea that take issue with, or is it just the very idea of the word "conspiracy" that shuts your brain off like a switch? I could present you with mountains of evidence that Bin Laden was NOT behind 9/11 and that the Bin Laden raid was a hoax. But what would you do with that information? Would you actually investigate it with an open mind, or would you continue to behave like sheep? Manipulating the public this way is nothing new and language is a powerful weapon. You would know that if you studied the history of Nazi Germany. We live under a fascist dictatorship today, but today's version is more sophisticated; the slaves have been tricked into thinking that they're free. It's time to wake up, people. Save the mudslinging, and spare us your input unless you have an actual position you'd like argue. "Conspiracy Nut" is not a valid contribution to the discussion.

Dec 15 - 12:25 PM

montezbush1

Montez Bush

You are not a nut. Your a sheep. You follow whatever is the minority opinion that's thrown at you. That's sadder then the mainstream idiots.

Dec 15 - 02:57 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

Montez, do you have any evidence or specific example of how I follow "whatever minority opinion is thrown at me"? Just wondering... Great arguments btw.

Dec 15 - 03:43 PM

Dylan  J.

Dylan Jones

Kent Fallman just said, "Bin Laden died 10 years ago." He offered no evidence explaining the logic of it. Yet you ask people to give evidence to their responses. You and him are just spouting out bullshit like conspiracy nuts--OH! Sorry, conspiracy "theorists". Was that better?

Dec 15 - 07:52 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

My friend‚?¶ Do YOU have any evidence to the contrary? If I present evidence will you analyze it, or just accuse me of "spouting out bullshit like a conspiracy nut?"
Former state department official Steve Pieczenik is just one of insider who has stepped forward- Following the supposed raid he said, "There has never been any evidence of his body, a video, forensic evidence, or autopsy.‚?? He also stated that Bin Ladin (who was a CIA operative in the 90s btw -bet you didn't know that) DIED IN 2001, and that he was prepared to testify to this in front of a grand jury.
This is a man who worked for 5 presidents and nobody in the state department has refuted his claims. He has been talking about this since 2002, claiming that Bin Laden died months earlier from a disease called marfan syndrome. He knew this because as a physician who new the CIA doctors who treated him, and he also knew that the CIA was waiting for the most politically beneficial time to announce his death.
There is absolutely NO evidence or documentation of the raid or disposal of his body. No, they don't have to broadcast photos of his dead body of live TV for the world to see, but don't you realize that the information HAS to be accessible to the public? Do you not understand how dangerous and criminal it is for a government to operate this way? You obviously don't understand anything if you think that's OK, and I don't have time to educated you right now. Bottom line, it's not safe for the gov to be able to say or do whatever it want's without any transparency or due process and we as a society should be up in arms over shit like that.
Top counter terrorism official Joh Brennen said all the "evidence" that Bin Laden lived in the compound was circumstantial, and only 1 out of around 50 people in the neighborhood of the alleged raid who were interviewed believed the raid took place. An interview with the man who lived right next to the door is one of many accounts that contradicted the story. If you actually paid attention to ANYTHING, you would have noticed all of the retractions to the official story during the week that followed.
First there was a fire fight, then no fire fight. Then there were wives as human shields, then no wives as human shields and non taken into custody. Then they said there was video from the cameras in all of there helmets, then there was no video. Then the statement that the administration watched it live was bullshit. It was almost comical (it's always amusing, in an infuriating way, watching this stuff play out when you understand how it works - but you have to be a "conspiracy nut" to be informed and not be the media's bitch apparently).
Then they came out with instant DNA results "proving" Bin Laden's identity, when when many experts have stated that the results are inconsistent. It was also found that the CIA used a fake vaccination drive to obtain DNA from the Bin Ladin family at the last minute to use as physical evidence of his death. You can even read about that in the Guardian and New York Times. Look it up. Look all this shit up if you have the mental and emotional capacity to care or understand.
I could go on and on, but then I'd just be spouting off more "conspiracy bullshit" right? Let me ask you this. Do you think there is such thing as a conspiracy? Do you think conspiracies ever happen? Is it possible for people to (gasp) get together and plan something? NAAAHHH, that's CRAZY talk! lol. People like you are hopeless. Completely and utterly brainwashed. Very sad. If you take issue with a specific "conspiracy theory" I want to hear a specific argument. Otherwise buzz off, fool.

Dec 16 - 08:59 AM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

My friend‚?¶ Do YOU have any evidence to the contrary? If I present evidence will you analyze it, or just accuse me of "spouting out bullshit like a conspiracy nut?"

Former state department official Steve Pieczenik is just one of insider who has stepped forward- Following the supposed raid he said, "There has never been any evidence of his body, a video, forensic evidence, or autopsy.‚?? He also stated that Bin Ladin (who was a CIA operative in the 90s btw -bet you didn't know that) DIED IN 2001, and that he was prepared to testify to this in front of a grand jury.
This is a man who worked for 5 presidents and nobody in the state department has refuted his claims. He has been talking about this since 2002, claiming that Bin Laden died months earlier from a disease called marfan syndrome. He knew this because as a physician who new the CIA doctors who treated him, and he also knew that the CIA was waiting for the most politically beneficial time to announce his death.

There is absolutely NO evidence or documentation of the raid or disposal of his body. No, they don't have to broadcast photos of his dead body of live TV for the world to see, but don't you realize that the information HAS to be accessible to the public? Do you not understand how dangerous and criminal it is for a government to operate this way? You obviously don't understand anything if you think that's OK, and I don't have time to educated you right now. Bottom line, it's not safe for the gov to be able to say or do whatever it want's without any transparency or due process and we as a society should be up in arms over shit like that.

Top counter terrorism official Joh Brennen said all the "evidence" that Bin Laden lived in the compound was circumstantial, and only 1 out of around 50 people in the neighborhood of the alleged raid who were interviewed believed the raid took place. An interview with the man who lived right next to the door is one of many accounts that contradicted the story. If you actually paid attention to ANYTHING, you would have noticed all of the retractions to the official story during the week that followed.

First there was a fire fight, then no fire fight. Then there were wives as human shields, then no wives as human shields and non taken into custody. Then they said there was video from the cameras in all of there helmets, then there was no video. Then the statement that the administration watched it live was bullshit. It was almost comical (it's always amusing, in an infuriating way, watching this stuff play out when you understand how it works - but you have to be a "conspiracy
nut" to be informed and not be the media's bitch apparently).

Then they came out with instant DNA results "proving" Bin Laden's identity, when when many experts have stated that the results are inconsistent. It was also found that the CIA used a fake vaccination drive to obtain DNA from the Bin Ladin family at the last minute to use as physical evidence of his death. You can even read about that in the Guardian and New York Times. Look it up. Look all this shit up if you have the mental and emotional capacity to care or understand.

I could go on and on, but then I'd just be spouting off more "conspiracy bullshit" right? Let me ask you this. Do you think there is such thing as a conspiracy? Do you think conspiracies ever happen? Is it possible for people to (gasp) get together and plan something? NAAAHHH, that's CRAZY talk! lol. People like you are hopeless. Completely and utterly brainwashed. Very sad. If you take issue with a specific "conspiracy theory" I want to hear a specific argument. Otherwise buzz off, fool.

Dec 16 - 09:01 AM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

My friend... Do YOU have any evidence to the contrary? If I present evidence will you analyze it, or just accuse me of "spouting out bullshit like a conspiracy nut?"

Former state department official Steve Pieczenik is just one of insider who has stepped forward- Following the supposed raid he said, "There has never been any evidence of his body, a video, forensic evidence, or autopsy" He also stated that Bin Ladin (who was a CIA operative in the 90s btw -bet you didn't know that) DIED IN 2001, and that he was prepared to testify to this in front of a grand jury.

This is a man who worked for 5 presidents and nobody in the state department has refuted his claims. He has been talking about this since 2002, claiming that Bin Laden died months earlier from a disease called marfan syndrome. He knew this because as a physician who new the CIA doctors who treated him, and he also knew that the CIA was waiting for the most politically beneficial time to announce his death.

There is absolutely NO evidence or documentation of the raid or disposal of his body. No, they don't have to broadcast photos of his dead body of live TV for the world to see, but don't you realize that the information HAS to be accessible to the public? Do you not understand how dangerous and criminal it is for a government to operate this way? You obviously don't understand anything if you think that's OK, and I don't have time to educated you right now. Bottom line, it's not safe for the gov to be able to say or do whatever it want's without any transparency or due process and we as a society should be up in arms over shit like that.

Top counter terrorism official Joh Brennen said all the "evidence" that Bin Laden lived in the compound was circumstantial, and only 1 out of around 50 people in the neighborhood of the alleged raid who were interviewed believed the raid took place. An interview with the man who lived right next to the door is one of many accounts that contradicted the story. If you actually paid attention to ANYTHING, you would have noticed all of the retractions to the official story during the week that followed.

First there was a fire fight, then no fire fight. Then there were wives as human shields, then no wives as human shields and non taken into custody. Then they said there was video from the cameras in all of there helmets, then there was no video. Then the statement that the administration watched it live was bullshit. It was almost comical (it's always amusing, in an infuriating way, watching this stuff play out when you understand how it works - but you have to be a "conspiracy
nut" to be informed and not be the media's bitch apparently).

Then they came out with instant DNA results "proving" Bin Laden's identity, when when many experts have stated that the results are inconsistent. It was also found that the CIA used a fake vaccination drive to obtain DNA from the Bin Ladin family at the last minute to use as physical evidence of his death. You can even read about that in the Guardian and New York Times. Look it up. Look all this shit up if you have the mental and emotional capacity to care or understand.

I could go on and on, but then I'd just be spouting off more "conspiracy bullshit" right? Let me ask you this. Do you think there is such thing as a conspiracy? Do you think conspiracies ever happen? Is it possible for people to (gasp) get together and plan something? NAAAHHH, that's CRAZY talk! lol. People like you are hopeless. Completely and utterly brainwashed. Very sad. If you take issue with a specific "conspiracy theory" I want to hear a specific argument. Otherwise buzz off, fool.

Dec 16 - 09:02 AM

Dylan  J.

Dylan Jones

Yes, if you laid out evidence to me that proved your point, of course I would believe it. What a ridiculous question.

Dec 16 - 01:35 PM

Dylan  J.

Dylan Jones

I'm not a person that looks at evidence and just writes it off to support my own agenda. Of course, I can't believe all of your points until I research them myself. But when someone just states something and then just expects people to believe them without even an attempt at convincing them, his opinion is invalid. When you give explanation (which you just did, even though I'll have to look into it myself before I just believe you) then you become more than just a crazy person who believes that there are aliens in Area 51 without any reasonable explanation other than the fact that they just said so. And, yes I do believe in conspiracies. The United States of America was built on a conspiracy that grew into a war. But, "conspiracy" and "conspiracy theory" are two different things. I obviously offended you enough for you to write a novel of a reply, and I apologize for that.

Dec 16 - 01:42 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

Ah, the "write a novel" comment. Can't tell you how often I get that one, and it's usually after someone accuses me of not providing evidence, which obviously can't be summed up in just a few lines. You sounded like you wanted evidence so I cited some examples for you to investigate yourself. That's all.

I understand you're calling someone else out on not backing up his position, but you didn't back up your apparent "anti-conspiracy" position or define it whatsoever when you hurled the word "conspiracy theorist/nut." So, I don't see why your statement/opinion was any more valid than his. Further more, evidence actually exists for his claim, and I challenge you to show me anything that supports the official story from the government. I'm not saying I know the raid didn't happen. I'm skeptical because of the evidence, but to me weather the raid happened is irrelevant because I don't believe Bin Laden was behind 9/11. That based on over 10 years worth of evidence that anyone can research for themselves if their not to afraid or willfully ignorant.

But all that aside, I probably overreacted calling you a fool, so I apologize to you as well. If evidence is what you want I recommend this list of videos and films that I've compiled here: http://progresshawk.posterous.com/free-must-see-perspective-altering-videos-and.

By no means should anyone blindly trust the films and I'm sure they have their fair share of inaccuracies, but they're excellent gate ways to other accessible sources of information that can be researched independently, and the subject matter is extremely important. Just check out the first 10 minutes of each video. I promise they will blow you away, or at the very least make you feel challenged and stimulated.

And btw, I don't get offended by the label conspiracy theorist. It's a term that was deliberately invented by the same group would introduce terms like "Weapons of Mass Destruction," Axis of Evil," or "Cut and Run" into the national dialogue. It's designed to confuse folks who are uninformed about the degree of corruption in our current system (which is most people, but that is finally changing thanks to the power of the internet). Propaganda is a powerful thing. Don't underestimate it.

Personally I find conspiracy theories boring in general. I don't spend time researching them, or dreaming them up to avoid the truth I can't handle. Believe me, I'd love to be proven wrong, and I wish it were as easy as Bin Laden being the boogie man behind 9/11 (and he was NOT), and that we got him.

Dec 16 - 08:10 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

Ah, the "write a novel" comment. Can't tell you how often I get that one, and it's usually after someone accuses me of not providing evidence, which obviously can't be summed up in just a few lines. You sounded like you wanted evidence so I cited some examples for you to investigate yourself. That's all.

I understand you're calling someone else out on not backing up his position, but you didn't back up your apparent "anti-conspiracy" position or define it whatsoever when you hurled the word "conspiracy theorist/nut." So, I don't see why your statement/opinion was any more valid than his. Further more, evidence actually exists for his claim, and I challenge you to show me anything that supports the official story from the government. I'm not saying I know the raid didn't happen. I'm skeptical because of the evidence, but to me weather the raid happened is irrelevant because I don't believe Bin Laden was behind 9/11. That's based on over 10 years worth of evidence that anyone can research for themselves if they're not to afraid or willfully ignorant.

But all that aside, I probably overreacted calling you a fool, so I apologize to you as well. If evidence is what you want I recommend this list of videos and films that I've compiled here: http://progresshawk.posterous.com/free-must-see-perspective-altering-videos-and.

By no means should anyone blindly trust the films and I'm sure they have their fair share of inaccuracies, but they're excellent gate ways to other accessible sources of information that can be researched independently, and the subject matter is extremely important. Just check out the first 10 minutes of each video. I promise they will blow you away, or at the very least make you feel challenged and stimulated.

And btw, I don't get offended by the label conspiracy theorist. It's a term that was invented by the same group would introduce terms like "Weapons of Mass Destruction," Axis of Evil," or "Cut and Run" into the national dialogue. It's deliberately designed to confuse folks who are uninformed about the degree of corruption in our current system (which is most people, but that is finally changing thanks to the power of the internet). Propaganda is a powerful thing. Don't underestimate it.

Personally I find conspiracy theories boring in general. I don't spend time researching them, or dreaming them up myself to avoid the truth I can't handle. Believe me, I'd love to be proven wrong about this stuff, and I wish it were as easy as Bin Laden being the boogie man behind 9/11 and that we killed the bad guy who was responsible.

Dec 16 - 08:15 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

Ah, the "write a novel" comment. Can't tell you how often I get that one, and it's usually after someone accuses me of not providing evidence, which obviously can't be summed up in just a few lines. You sounded like you wanted evidence so I cited some examples for you to investigate yourself. That's all.

I understand you're calling people out on not backing up our stated positions, but you didn't back up your apparent "anti-conspiracy" position or define it whatsoever when you hurled the word "conspiracy theorist/nut." So, I don't see why your statement/opinion was any more valid than ours. Further more, evidence actually exists for his claim, and I challenge you to show me anything that supports the official story from the government. I'm not saying I know the raid didn't happen. I'm skeptical because of the evidence, but to me weather the raid happened is irrelevant because I don't believe Bin Laden was behind 9/11. That's based on over 10 years worth of evidence that anyone can research for themselves if they're not to afraid or willfully ignorant.

But all that aside, I probably overreacted calling you a fool, so I apologize to you as well. If evidence is what you want I recommend this list of videos and films that I've compiled here: http://progresshawk.posterous.com/free-must-see-perspective-altering-videos-and.

By no means should anyone blindly trust the films and I'm sure they have their fair share of inaccuracies, but they're excellent gate ways to other accessible sources of information that can be researched independently, and the subject matter is extremely important. Just check out the first 10 minutes of each video. I promise they will blow you away, or at the very least make you feel challenged and stimulated.

And btw, I don't get offended by the label conspiracy theorist. It's a term that was invented by the same group would introduce terms like "Weapons of Mass Destruction," Axis of Evil," or "Cut and Run" into the national dialogue. It's deliberately designed to confuse folks who are uninformed about the degree of corruption in our current system (which is most people, but that is finally changing thanks to the power of the internet). Propaganda is a powerful thing. Don't underestimate it.

Personally I find conspiracy theories boring in general. I don't spend time researching them, or dreaming them up myself to avoid the truth I can't handle. Believe me, I'd love to be proven wrong about this stuff, and I wish it were as easy as Bin Laden being the boogie man behind 9/11 and that we killed the bad guy who was responsible.

Dec 16 - 08:52 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

Ah, the "write a novel" comment. Can't tell you how often I get that one, and it's usually after someone accuses me of not providing evidence, which obviously can't be summed up in just a few lines. You sounded like you wanted evidence so I cited some examples for you to investigate yourself. That's all.

I understand you're calling people out for not backing up a stated position, but you didn't back up your apparent "anti-conspiracy" position or define it whatsoever when you hurled the word "conspiracy theorist/nut." So, I don't see why your statement/opinion was any more valid. Furthermore, evidence actually exists for his claim, and I challenge you to show me anything that supports the official story from the government. I'm not saying I know the raid didn't happen. I'm skeptical because of the evidence, but to me weather the raid happened is irrelevant because I don't believe Bin Laden was behind 9/11. That's based on over 10 years worth of evidence that anyone can research for themselves if they're not to afraid or willfully ignorant.

But all that aside, I probably overreacted calling you a fool, so I apologize to you as well. If evidence is what you want I recommend this list of videos and films that I've compiled here: http://progresshawk.posterous.com/free-must-see-perspective-altering-videos-and.

By no means should anyone blindly trust the films and I'm sure they have their fair share of inaccuracies, but they're excellent gate ways to other accessible sources of information that can be researched independently, and the subject matter is extremely important. Just check out the first 10 minutes of each video. I promise they will blow you away, or at the very least make you feel challenged and stimulated.

And btw, I don't get offended by the label conspiracy theorist. It's a term that was invented by the same group would introduce terms like "Weapons of Mass Destruction," Axis of Evil," or "Cut and Run" into the national dialogue. It's deliberately designed to confuse folks who are uninformed about the degree of corruption in our current system (which is most people, but that is finally changing thanks to the power of the internet). Propaganda is a powerful thing. Don't underestimate it.

Personally I find conspiracy theories boring in general. I don't spend time researching them, or dreaming them up myself to avoid the truth I can't handle. Believe me, I'd love to be proven wrong about this stuff, and I wish it were as easy as Bin Laden being the boogie man behind 9/11 and that we killed the bad guy who was responsible.

Dec 16 - 08:54 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

Ah, the "write a novel" comment. Can't tell you how often I get that one, and it's usually after someone accuses me of not providing evidence, which obviously can't be summed up in just a few lines. You sounded like you wanted evidence so I cited some examples for you to investigate yourself. That's all.

I understand you're calling people out for not backing up a stated position, but you didn't back up your apparent "anti-conspiracy" position or define it whatsoever when you hurled the word "conspiracy theorist/nut." So, I don't see why your statement/opinion was any more valid. Furthermore, evidence actually exists for his claim, and I challenge you to show me anything that supports the official story from the government. I'm not saying I know the raid didn't happen. I'm skeptical because of the evidence, but to me weather the raid happened is irrelevant because I don't believe Bin Laden was behind 9/11. That's based on over 10 years worth of evidence that anyone can research for themselves if they're not too afraid or willfully ignorant.

But all that aside, I probably overreacted calling you a fool, so I apologize to you as well. If evidence is what you want I recommend this list of videos and films that I've compiled here: http://progresshawk.posterous.com/free-must-see-perspective-altering-videos-and.

By no means should anyone blindly trust the films and I'm sure they have their fair share of inaccuracies, but they're excellent gate ways to other accessible sources of information that can be researched independently, and the subject matter is extremely important. Just check out the first 10 minutes of each video. I promise they will blow you away, or at the very least make you feel challenged and stimulated.

And btw, I don't get offended by the label conspiracy theorist. It's a term that was invented by the same group would introduce terms like "Weapons of Mass Destruction," Axis of Evil," or "Cut and Run" into the national dialogue. It's deliberately designed to confuse folks who are uninformed about the degree of corruption in our current system (which is most people, but that is finally changing thanks to the power of the internet). Propaganda is a powerful thing. Don't underestimate it.

Personally I find conspiracy theories boring in general. I don't spend time researching them, or dreaming them up myself to avoid the truth I can't handle. Believe me, I'd love to be proven wrong about this stuff, and I wish it were as easy as Bin Laden being the boogie man behind 9/11 and that we killed the bad guy who was responsible.

Dec 16 - 08:56 PM

Lee Augustus

Lee Augustus

you're fucking retarded

Jan 7 - 02:28 PM

Matt d.

Matt diesel

Justin - Gotta give you props man. Way to stay vigilant and provide SOURCES when all these retards can do is slam you and call you names because you go against what their daddy told them was right. What a bunch a sheep. Keep up the good work bro, you give me hope for something other than a totalitarian state.
Everyone slamming Justin, please just go read any article on 9/11 for five minutes. Thermite plasma in the beams? hmmmmm......

Jan 10 - 12:44 AM

Lee Augustus

Lee Augustus

Matt- Why don't you watch Penn and Tellers Bullshit episode on 9/11 conspiracy fucktards like yourself

Jan 10 - 05:45 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

Ah, the "write a novel" comment. Can't tell you how often I get that one, and it's usually after someone accuses me of not providing evidence, which obviously can't be summed up in just a few lines. You sounded like you wanted evidence so I cited some examples for you to investigate yourself. That's all.

I understand you're calling someone else out on not backing up his position, but you didn't back up your apparent "anti-conspiracy" position or define it whatsoever when you hurled the word "conspiracy theorist/nut." So, I don't see why your statement/opinion was any more valid than his. Further more, evidence actually exists for his claim, and I challenge you to show me anything that supports the official story from the government. I'm not saying I know the raid didn't happen. I'm skeptical because of the evidence, but to me weather the raid happened is irrelevant because I don't believe Bin Laden was behind 9/11. That's based on over 10 years worth of evidence that anyone can research for themselves if they're not to afraid or willfully ignorant.

But all that aside, I probably overreacted calling you a fool, so I apologize to you as well. If evidence is what you want I recommend this list of videos and films that I've compiled here: http://progresshawk.posterous.com/free-must-see-perspective-altering-videos-and.

By no means should anyone blindly trust the films and I'm sure they have their fair share of inaccuracies, but they're excellent gate ways to other accessible sources of information that can be researched independently, and the subject matter is extremely important. Just check out the first 10 minutes of each video. I promise they will blow you away, or at the very least make you feel challenged and stimulated.

And btw, I don't get offended by the label conspiracy theorist. It's a term that was invented by the same group would introduce terms like "Weapons of Mass Destruction," Axis of Evil," or "Cut and Run" into the national dialogue. It's deliberately designed to confuse folks who are uninformed about the degree of corruption in our current system (which is most people, but that is finally changing thanks to the power of the internet). Propaganda is a powerful thing. Don't underestimate it.

Personally I find conspiracy theories boring in general. I don't spend time researching them, or dreaming them up myself to avoid the truth I can't handle. Believe me, I'd love to be proven wrong about this stuff, and I wish it were as easy as Bin Laden being the boogie man behind 9/11 and that we killed the bad guy who was responsible.

Dec 16 - 08:14 PM

Francesco F.

Francesco Fortuna

Oh gawd, I'm so sick of complaints like these, it's a fucking movie. I just want to be entertained. A critic is suppose to analyze the film and pretty much say if it's worth seeing or not. I don't give a shit about their morals, that's not what I want to read, I don't want to know what they think is morally wrong to them. I just want to know if the movie is good and entertaining, and judging by these reviews it seems that way.

Dec 14 - 09:16 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

Perhaps you should look at the REVIEWS and not a FORUM thread labeled "Is this Film War Propaganda?" Just a thought. Nobody forced you into the discussion, did they?

Dec 15 - 12:18 AM

Francesco F.

Francesco Fortuna

No they didn't but, I just thought I'd share what I think with threads like these as there seems to be multiple threads on this topic. Plus this person hasn't even seen the movie yet...

Dec 15 - 05:40 AM

Francesco F.

Francesco Fortuna

Oh gawd, I'm so sick of complaints like these, it's a fucking movie. I just want to be entertained. A critic is suppose to analyze the film and pretty much say if it's worth seeing or not. I could don't give a shit about their morals, I don't want to know what they think is morally wrong to them. I just want to know if the movie is good and entertaining, and judging by these reviews it seems that way.

Dec 14 - 09:15 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

Zero Dark Connecticut:

Thank you Abby Martin for your piece regarding Zero Dark Thirty - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-dSBAxqWis. I hope to god this film tanks and I will NEVER watch it. Not that it doesn't look f*cking awesome, but that's the problem. I'm so sick of the American public just accepting what they're told by corporate/state run media without any investigation. Behold the thought process: "If they said it on the news and a multi-million dollar film was made, it must be true, and the people who question it are radical conspiracy nut jobs." Boy do we make this easy...

Anyone concerned about the events of today in CT should study the history of a CIA program called Project MK Ultra. No, we don't know if there is any connection here, but with tragedies of this magnitude, how can we dismiss or rule out any possible factor, explanation or variable, if the facts and the history are real? I guess it's no surprise when so many can blow off 10 years of hard evidence that debunks the official story about 9/11. In this case there happen to be thousands of declassified documents and countless testimonies which detail the government's mind control efforts, for the purpose of staging mass killings, to gain more control over the public and distract us from their imperialistic military operations and freedom killing policies.

Why on earth would "our own government" commit such evil? Because it's NOT our government. Don't be fooled into thinking that real truth seekers imagine our president and other public officials are in on this, figuring out how to hurt us in secret meetings. That idea is preposterous. Here's what is actually true: our government was bought and paid for 100 years ago when Wilson signed the FED bill, and it's been controlled by an outside group of fascists ever since; the same group that has billions to gain from the continuation of our wars and even the collapse of our monetary system and the government itself.

But go ahead and just accept what you're told as these types of events continue to happen over and over again. Blow this off and convince yourself that this is just the way things are and it's in our nature to destroy each other. OR educate yourself and join the intellectual revolution. Consider the possibility that this is not the way it's supposed to be and find ways to stop supporting the oppression, so we can finally bring it to an end and gain some semblance of freedom and peace.

The documentaries I've compiled on my blog are a great place to start, but they are mere gateways to other sources of information that people can research and analyze for themselves. In no way am I suggesting that people should put blind faith in them, but trust me, you want to hear what these filmmakers and scholars have to say, even if you just start with the first 10 minutes of each video. It will be better than anything you get out watching Zero Dark Horse Sh*t:

http://progresshawk.posterous.com/free-must-see-perspective-altering-videos-and
http://progresshawk.wordpress.com

Dec 14 - 07:49 PM

AHungerArtist

ahungerartist ahungerartist

Really? Just casually throwing out a connection between MK Ultra and those killings yesterday without any evidence whatsoever. Brilliant work, sir.

Dec 15 - 11:42 AM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

It's entirely possible that it had nothing to do with MK Ultra. Society is very sick right now and there are all sorts of psychological disorders and sociological contributions, today more than ever in fact. But I'm also suspicious because I'm informed about what our government (which in not really "our government") has been involved in. Do you want examples? Ever hear of the Tuskegee Experiments? The stuff I'm talking about is real. It actually happens. So it's perfectly reasonable to be suspicious and consider all possible factors. Personally I think it's offensive not to, and I for one am sick an tired of them getting away that kind of stuff. There are other conditions and reasons to consider these possibilities right now too, but I can tell that I'd be waisting my breath. People who are aware of these things feel the same way. You have the power to learn for yourself. Best of luck

Dec 15 - 12:47 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

P.S. you should also look into the connection between medications like prozac and THEIR correlation to mass killings and acts of violence. Those studies are very interesting and the evidence is overwhelming. Big Pharma is the reason you never hear about that. I would like to see every possibility investigated before it's ruled out wouldn't you? Or is it enough for media culture to tell you that it's crazy to even consider it and the person "just went crazy" or they were "just evil" and that's it. Forgive me for wanting to know as much as possible instead of just accepting culturally contrived myths and waiting for this to happen over and over again.

Dec 16 - 08:30 PM

Ralph

Ralph Myers

So you're basically hyping up your blog on a thread about propaganda, you fail sir, no one gives a shit, this movie will outlive you and your shitty blog

Dec 15 - 12:08 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

Dude, I don't care about my blog whatsoever and I have no doubts that this movie is extremely well done and will be watched by millions. Congratulations. You're insults are very affective. But I promise you. I hate blogging and I don't care if anyone ever becomes my blog followers. Thousands of people were murdered in front of our faces and we're dropping bombs on 8 different countries right now, killing children every single day. Our currency is about to collapse and that's going to change this wonderful cozy country that you live in forever. This stuff is a little bit important and I'm just trying to share ideas with anyone who isn't hopelessly brainwashed and spread awareness. It has nothing to do with me. Did you check out any of the videos I shared? Did the contents of blog upset you? You disagree with something? Oh, that's right you just wanted to insult me personally and dis my shitty blog. Got it. Well done.

Dec 15 - 01:00 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

Dude, I don't care about my blog whatsoever and I have no doubts that this movie is extremely well done and will be watched by millions. Congratulations. Your insults are very affective. But I promise you. I hate blogging and I don't care if anyone ever becomes my blog follower. Thousands of people were murdered in front of our faces and we're dropping bombs on 8 different countries right now, killing children every single day. Our currency is about to collapse and that's going to change this wonderful cozy country that you love forever. This stuff is a little bit important and I'm just trying to share ideas with anyone who isn't hopelessly brainwashed and spread awareness. It has nothing to do with me. Did you check out any of the videos I shared? Did the contents of blog upset you? You disagree with something? Oh, that's right you just wanted to insult me personally and dis my shitty blog. Got it. Well done.

Dec 15 - 01:01 PM

Mikhail Bakunin

Mikhail Bakunin

You're not alone Justin. Keep up the light.

Jan 11 - 06:00 AM

Nick Shaw

Nick Shaw

The real truth is that everything we're fed is a fabrication. Not just by our government. They're being fooled as well. Reality itself is a fabrication created by unseen overlords that feed off of our existence. The world around you isn't real at all. Your perceptions of everything is false. Kind of ironic that the overlords let the Matrix get made since it was probably the most accurate film of the truth. The government can do whatever they want since they actually don't control everything. If you really think that anything is really you're just a sheep

Jan 12 - 09:46 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

Zero Dark Connecticut:

Thank you Abby Martin for your piece regarding Zero Dark Thirty ‚?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-dSBAxqWis. I hope to god this film tanks and I will NEVER watch it. Not that it doesn't look f*cking awesome, but that's the problem. I'm so sick of the American public just accepting what they're told without investigation. Behold the thought process: "If they said it on the news and a multi-million dollar film was made, it must be true, and the people who question it are radical conspiracy nut jobs." Boy do we make this easy‚?¶

Anyone concerned about the events of today in CT should study the history of a CIA program called Project MK Ultra. No, we don't know if there is any connection here, but with tragedies of this magnitude, how can we dismiss or rule out any possible factor, explanation or variable, if the facts and the history are real? I guess it's no surprise when so many can blow off 10 years of hard evidence that debunks the official story about 9/11. In this case there happen to be thousands of declassified documents and countless testimonies which detail the government's mind control efforts, for the purpose of staging mass killings, to gain more control over the public and distract us from their imperialistic military operations and freedom killing policies.

Why on earth would "our own government" commit such evil? Because it's NOT our government. Don't be fooled into thinking that real truth seekers imagine our president and other public officials are in on this, setting everything up together in secret meetings. That idea is preposterous. Here's what is actually true: our government was bought and paid for 100 years ago when Wilson signed the FED bill, and it's been controlled by an outside group of fascists ever since: the same group that has billions to gain from the continuation of our wars and even the collapse of our monetary system and the government itself.

But go ahead and just accept what you're told as these types of events continue to happen over and over again. Blow this off and convince yourself that this is just the way things are and it''s in our nature to destroy each other. OR educate yourself and join the intellectual revolution. Consider the possibility that this is not the way it's supposed to be and find ways to stop supporting the oppression, so we can finally bring it to an end and gain some semblance of freedom and peace.

The documentaries I've compiled on my blog are a great place to start, but they are mere gateways to other sources of information that people can research and analyze for themselves. In no way am I suggesting that people should put blind faith in them, but trust me, you want to hear what these filmmakers and scholars have to say, even if you just start with the first 10 minutes of each video. It will be better than anything you get our of Zero Dark Thirty:

http://progresshawk.posterous.com/free-must-see-perspective-altering-videos-and
http://progresshawk.wordpress.com

Dec 14 - 07:34 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

Zero Dark Connecticut:

Thank you Abby Martin for your piece regarding Zero Dark Thirty ‚?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-dSBAxqWis. I hope to god this film tanks and I will NEVER watch it. Not that it doesn‚??t look f*cking awesome, but that's the problem. I'm so sick of the American public just accepting what they're told without investigation. Behold the thought process: "If they said it on the news and a multi-million dollar film was made, it must be true, and the people who question it are radical conspiracy nut jobs." Boy do we make this easy‚?¶

Anyone concerned about the events of today in CT should study the history of a CIA program called Project MK Ultra. No, we don't know if there is any connection here, but with tragedies of this magnitude, how can we dismiss or rule out any possible factor, explanation or variable, if the facts and the history are real? I guess it‚??s no surprise when so many can blow off 10 years of hard evidence that debunks the official story about 9/11. In this case there happen to be thousands of declassified documents and countless testimonies which detail the government's mind control efforts, for the purpose of staging mass killings, to gain more control over the public and distract us from their imperialistic military operations and freedom killing policies.

Why on earth would "our own government" commit such evil?Because it‚??s NOT our government. Don't be fooled into thinking that real truth seekers imagine our president and other public officials are in on this, setting everything up together in secret meetings. That idea is preposterous. Here's what is actually true: our government was bought and paid for 100 years ago when Wilson signed the FED bill, and it's been controlled by an outside group of fascists ever since; the same group that has billions to gain from the continuation of our wars and even the collapse of our monetary system and the government itself.

But go ahead and just accept what you're told as these types of events continue to happen over and over again. Blow this off and convince yourself that this is just the way things are and it's in our nature to destroy each other. OR educate yourself and join the intellectual revolution. Consider the possibility that this is not the way it's supposed to be and find ways to stop supporting the oppression, so we can finally bring it to an end and gain some semblance of freedom and peace.

The documentaries I've compiled on my blog are a great place to start, but they are mere gateways to other sources of information that people can research and analyze for themselves. In no way am I suggesting that people should put blind faith in them, but trust me, you want to hear what these filmmakers and scholars have to say, even if you just start with the first 10 minutes of each video-

http://progresshawk.posterous.com/free-must-see-perspective-altering-videos-and

http://progresshawk.wordpress.com

Dec 14 - 07:24 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

Thank you Abby Martin for your piece regarding Zero Dark Thirty ‚?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-dSBAxqWis. I hope to god this film tanks and I will NEVER watch it. Not that it doesn‚??t look f*cking awesome, but that‚??s the problem. I‚??m so sick of the American public just accepting what they‚??re told without investigation. Behold the thought process: ‚??If they said it on the news and a multi-million dollar film was made, it must be true, and the people who question it are radical conspiracy nut jobs.‚?? Boy do we make this easy‚?¶

Anyone concerned about the events of today in CT should study the history of a CIA program called Project MK Ultra. No, we don‚??t know if there is any connection here, but with tragedies of this magnitude, how can we dismiss or rule out any possible factor, explanation or variable, if the facts and the history are real? I guess it‚??s no surprise when so many can blow off 10 years of hard evidence that debunks the official story about 9/11. But in this case there happen to be thousands of declassified documents and testimonies which detail the government‚??s mind control efforts, for the purpose of staging mass killings, to gain more control over the public and distract us from their military operations and freedom killing policies.

Why on earth would ‚??our own government‚?? commit such evil? Because it‚??s NOT our government. Don‚??t be fooled into thinking that truth seekers imagine our president and other public officials are in on this, setting everything up together in secret meetings. That idea is preposterous. Here‚??s what is actually true: our government was bought and paid for 100 years ago when Wilson signed the FED bill, and it‚??s been controlled by an outside group of fascists ever since; the same group that has billions to gain from the continuation of our wars and even the collapse of our monetary system and the government itself.

But go ahead and just accept what you‚??re told as these types of events continue to happen over and over again. Blow this off and convince yourself that this is just the way things are and it‚??s in our nature to destroy each other. OR educate yourself and join the intellectual revolution. Consider the possibility that this is not the way it‚??s supposed to be and find ways to stop supporting the oppression, so we can finally bring it to an end and gain some semblance of freedom and peace.

The documentaries I‚??ve compiled on my blog are a great place to start, but they are mere gateways to other sources of information that people can research and analyze for themselves. In no way am I suggesting that people should put blind faith in them, but trust me, you want to hear what these filmmakers and scholars have to say, even if you just start with the first 10 minutes of each video-

http://progresshawk.posterous.com/free-must-see-perspective-altering-videos-and

Dec 14 - 07:09 PM

Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins

http://progresshawk.wordpress.com/2012/12/15/zero-dark-connecticut/

Dec 14 - 07:07 PM

Thom Stone

Thom Stone

i got to "The Christian Science Monitor" and stopped caring.

i think most people see torture as wrong. i doubt the director put it in there to glorify it or anything, just that it happened.

from the reviews i've read, it seems that this movie is very focused on the hunt, ignoring politics and other things that are going on in the region at the time. i highly doubt it's propaganda.

Dec 14 - 06:23 PM

todd123

Todd Garry

Ha agreed. The second I saw Christian Science Monitor I just rolled my eyes.

Dec 15 - 11:58 AM

Thom Stone

Thom Stone

i should clarify my previous comment: "just that it happens."

in the review that Peter Rainer wrote for 'Christian Science Monitor', he mentions this:

In a recent New Yorker piece on Bigelow and the film, the political reporter Dexter Filkins wrote: ‚??According to several official sources, including Dianne Feinstein, the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, the identity of bin Laden‚??s courier, whose trail led the C.I.A. to the hideout in Pakistan, was not discovered through waterboarding. ‚??It‚??s a movie, not a documentary,‚?? Boal said. ‚??We‚??re trying to make the point that waterboarding and other harsh tactics were part of the C.I.A. program.‚?? ‚??

so, i was wrong that is happened to take down bin laden, but she added that scene in there to show those things happen. It is a movie, after all.

Dec 17 - 01:42 AM

Thom Stone

Thom Stone

i should clarify my previous comment: "just that it happens."

in the review that Peter Rainer wrote for 'Christian Science Monitor', he mentions this:

In a recent New Yorker piece on Bigelow and the film, the political reporter Dexter Filkins wrote: "According to several official sources, including Dianne Feinstein, the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, the identity of bin Laden's courier, whose trail led the C.I.A. to the hideout in Pakistan, was not discovered through waterboarding. 'It's a movie, not a documentary,' Boal said. 'We're trying to make the point that waterboarding and other harsh tactics were part of the C.I.A. program.'"

so, i was wrong that is happened to take down bin laden, but she added that scene in there to show those things happen. it is a movie, after all.

Dec 17 - 01:44 AM

montezbush1

Montez Bush

1. The film shows torture as the least source of information. If Rainer couldn't see that, that's his fault.

2. Why in the hell would Boal, who wrote an essay condeming Afghan Solider's and their murders, make a propaganda film. Same with Bigelow? That makes no sense whatsoever...Let's not come up with these nut job conspiracies...Nobody condemned Amadeus for making Mozart look like a Jack ass. BECAUSE it's a movie.

Dec 14 - 04:20 PM

Sean Aminali

Sean Aminali

Films often turn out to be propaganda. This isn't a nutjob conspiracy theory.

Chances are, I'll see this movie again to decide for myself. Until then, I need some time to think about it.

Dec 14 - 04:45 PM

montezbush1

Montez Bush

What??? That makes nooo sense? Why would Bigelow of ALLLL people waste her money and time making war propaganda? Her films barely make money?

Dec 14 - 07:31 PM

Efrain S.

Efrain Sanchez

Leave it to the Christians to complain about the torture scene. I love movies that sometimes show some gruesome scenes to let the audiences know that this shit probably happens. Knowing Kathryn Bigelow this is 100% NOT propaganda. It's so stupid to even consider it a propaganda movie.

Dec 14 - 03:28 PM

Sean Aminali

Sean Aminali

I was simply raising a topic for discussion. I support Mr. Rainer's right to share his opinion, especially since it's come from a moral perspective.

Dec 14 - 04:44 PM

Efrain S.

Efrain Sanchez

I'm not saying anyone is stupid its just the "propaganda" bandwagon is stupid. I'm an atheist so I'm very aware of the "christian morality" sensitivity.

Dec 14 - 05:09 PM

Nick Shaw

Nick Shaw

Umm bro, Christian Science is different from Christianity...

Dec 15 - 10:03 AM

Cody H.

Cody Halpert

Yeah Christian Science and Christianity are completely different.

Dec 15 - 10:15 AM

Mercedes Stanton

Mercedes Stanton

Efrain knows Bigelow.

Jan 12 - 04:58 PM

Deyan Angelov

Deyan Angelov

The film's a propaganda regardless if you manage to restrain yourself from taking a side and just immerse yourself in the characters and the story without thinking about what actually happened in the world. Just like the Hurt Locker. Its doomed to be a propaganda just for the topic it addresses in my opinion. Haven't seen it yet, it might be so powerful and smartly written that it actually avoids the moral of the reality of the situation or taking a side but I am pretty sure this is absolutely impossible. That's what I think, I got to see the film.

Dec 14 - 02:07 PM

Find us on:                     
Help | About | Jobs | Critics Submission | Press | API | Licensing | Mobile