Servant of the Secret Fire, Wielder of the Flame of Anor

[Thyrsos]

What was Gandalf refering to here, in his confrontation with the Balrog?

Also: Is is true that Gandalf and the Balrog are both Maiar and therefore equal in power?

[maxuda]

All I know is the Balrog is a Valaraukar. I think Gandalf is a Maiar or whatever.

And Balrogs are cool. I know that too. But what do the do in their spare time? What is a typical day like for a Balrog? I mean, you're only going to do battle with a wizard once every few thousand years. That leaves a lot of time to kill.

[JeTmAn]

Gandalf is a maia. The balrog was a maia. They are both maiar (plural form of maia). The Secret Fire, Flame of Anor stuff refers to the ring which Gandalf wears, one of the great elven rings (like the one Galadriel wears), given to him by Cirdan the shipwright I think it was.

[Qrazy]

All I know is the Balrog is a Valaraukar. I think Gandalf is a Maiar or whatever.

And Balrogs are cool. I know that too. But what do the do in their spare time? What is a typical day like for a Balrog? I mean, you're only going to do battle with a wizard once every few thousand years. That leaves a lot of time to kill.
Hibernation.

[maxuda]

Gandalf is a maia. The balrog was a maia. They are both maiar (plural form of maia). The Secret Fire, Flame of Anor stuff refers to the ring which Gandalf wears, one of the great elven rings (like the one Galadriel wears), given to him by Cirdan the shipwright I think it was.


You're wrong, man. The Balrog is a Valaraukar. I know that to be true.

[maxuda]

Hibernation.

Sounds empty. I'll bet Balrogs are really nostalgic for the good old days when they weren't so mythical. Like the guy who used to be a football star in high school.

[Gumbercules]

Indeed. 'Servant of the Secret Fire' seems to refer to the fact that Gandalf secretly carries one of the three elven rings of power: Narya, ring of fire. Narya is not normally used to create actual flame; rather, it helps Gandalf inspire hope and an 'inner fire' in those that need inspiration to stand against Sauron.

Also, Gandalf was a Maiar (a lesser 'angelic' being .. sort of). He was of a particular type referred to as 'Istari', The Wizards sent to help guide the people of Middle Earth (Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, Alatar, and Pallando) were all Istari.

The Balrog was one of many Maia who served Morgoth (who was the original Great Enemy, and Sauron's master as well). The Balrogs (there were quite a few of them at one point) became dark, twisted beings. Was the Balrog of Moria equal in power to that of an Istari (Gandalf)? It would seem that their strength and will was certainly very closely matched, yes.

[maxuda]

Indeed. 'Servant of the Secret Fire' seems to refer to the fact that Gandalf secretly carries one of the three elven rings of power: Narya, ring of fire. Narya is not normally used to create actual flame; rather, it helps Gandalf inspire hope and an 'inner fire' in those that need inspiration to stand against Sauron.

Also, Gandalf was a Maiar (a lesser 'angelic' being .. sort of). He was of a particular type referred to as 'Istari', The Wizards sent to help guide the people of Middle Earth (Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, Alatar, and Pallando) were all Istari.

The Balrog was on of many Maia who served Morgoth (who was the original Great Enemy, and Sauron's master as well). The Balrogs (there were quite a few of them at one point) became dark, twisted beings. Was the Balrog of Moria equal in power to that of an Istari (Gandalf)? It would seem that their strength and will was certainly very closely matched, yes.


Man, you people don't know anything about Tolkien. The Balrog was a Valaraukar, man.

[Gumbercules]

You're wrong, man. The Balrog is a Valaraukar. I know that to be true. From the ENcyclopedia of Arda:

" A Quenya (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/q/quenya.html) name formed from words vala, 'power' and rauko, 'demon'. The Valaraukar were the monstrous Maiar (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/maiar.html) that Melkor (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/melkor.html) took into his service, to become some of his most feared and dangerous servants. In Middle-earth (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/middleearth.html), their name was changed from the Quenya (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/q/quenya.html) form Valaraukar to the more familiar Sindarin (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/s/sindarin.html) form: Balrogs (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/b/balrogs.html)."


So, Balrog and Valaraukar are the same name, in different forms of Elvish. They were indeed Maia.

I know Tolkien. His ghost plays Uno with me twice a month. The bastard cheats a lot, though.

[maxuda]

From the ENcyclopedia of Arda:

" A Quenya (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/q/quenya.html) name formed from words vala, 'power' and rauko, 'demon'. The Valaraukar were the monstrous Maiar (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/maiar.html) that Melkor (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/melkor.html) took into his service, to become some of his most feared and dangerous servants. In Middle-earth (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/middleearth.html), their name was changed from the Quenya (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/q/quenya.html) form Valaraukar to the more familiar Sindarin (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/s/sindarin.html) form: Balrogs (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/b/balrogs.html)."


So, Balrog and Valaraukar are the same name, in different forms of Elvish. They were indeed Maia.

I know Tolkien. His ghost plays Uno with me twice a month. The bastard cheats a lot, though.



SEE? SEE?


I knew it. I knew that.

Vala-****ing-raukar, *****.

[AsianChimp]

How do Balrogs reproduce?
I hope they do it sexually so I can think about something while I sleep.

[JeTmAn]

Actually I think I reversed the plural and singular, Maiar is singular and Maia is plural.

[Papa Joe Mama]

Tom Shippey's book on Tolkien contends that the phrase about the secret fire / flame of Anor line is a bit of deliberate ambiguity that heightens the mystery of Middle-Earth and hints at a deeper mythos beyond what's in the books.

Just thought I'd share that.

[monolith94]

I'm pretty sure there are various levels of power within the Balrogs... I remember reading something about how they had this super-powerful leader Balrog... Or something...

[BusterKeaton]

All I know is the Balrog is a Valaraukar. I think Gandalf is a Maiar or whatever.

And Balrogs are cool. I know that too. But what do the do in their spare time? What is a typical day like for a Balrog? I mean, you're only going to do battle with a wizard once every few thousand years. That leaves a lot of time to kill.What everyone does with a lot of time to kill
Get drunk and masterbate

[Oikeoir]

The more important question is, do Balrogs have wings? :p

[FEENXFIRE]

Indeed. 'Servant of the Secret Fire' seems to refer to the fact that Gandalf secretly carries one of the three elven rings of power: Narya, ring of fire. Narya is not normally used to create actual flame; rather, it helps Gandalf inspire hope and an 'inner fire' in those that need inspiration to stand against Sauron.

Also, Gandalf was a Maiar (a lesser 'angelic' being .. sort of). He was of a particular type referred to as 'Istari', The Wizards sent to help guide the people of Middle Earth (Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, Alatar, and Pallando) were all Istari.

The Balrog was one of many Maia who served Morgoth (who was the original Great Enemy, and Sauron's master as well). The Balrogs (there were quite a few of them at one point) became dark, twisted beings. Was the Balrog of Moria equal in power to that of an Istari (Gandalf)? It would seem that their strength and will was certainly very closely matched, yes.

[Thyrsos]

The Lord of the Balrogs was Gothmog, slain by Glorfindel at the fall of Gondolin.

Narya is the Elven ring of fire, given to Gandalf by Cirdan. Galadriel and Elrond wear the other two.

[Thyrsos]

For they did not move or speak with mouth, looking from mind to mind; and only their shining eyes stirred and kindled as their thoughts went to and fro.~ROTK

[The Omnipotent Critic]

I've had sex, so, I'm not really able to answer this question.

[AsianChimp]

I've had sex, so, I'm not really able to answer this question.:D

[King Elessar 8]

SEE? SEE?


I knew it. I knew that.

Vala-****ing-raukar, *****.


LOL.

And "servant of the secret fire" might be a reference to lluvatar (god), not to Narya. It says in The Silmarillion that the "secret fire" (the desire and the ability to create things) is part of the thoughts of lluvatar. It was the desire for the secret fire that destroyed Morgoth, and turned him into the first Dark Lord.

[morroch]

LOL.

And "servant of the secret fire" might be a reference to lluvatar (god), not to Narya. It says in The Silmarillion that the "secret fire" (the desire and the ability to create things) is part of the thoughts of lluvatar. It was the desire for the secret fire that destroyed Morgoth, and turned him into the first Dark Lord.
That was always my interpretation of it, since it connects with Ilúvatar and "The flame imperishable". Since Gandalf is an agent of Ilúvatar, it would appear to be an appropriate fit to me.

[HoboJoe]

I've had sex, so, I'm not really able to answer this question.
PWN3D!!!

[Slash Rocks]

I've had sex, so, I'm not really able to answer this question.
It only counts when it's with a woman.

[The Omnipotent Critic]

It only counts when it's with a woman.Well, I'd hope so. Otherwise, you were somehow birthed by a man.

Also: I can take a joke, so, I am unable to answer this question.

[NumeroCinco]

LOL.

And "servant of the secret fire" might be a reference to lluvatar (god), not to Narya. It says in The Silmarillion that the "secret fire" (the desire and the ability to create things) is part of the thoughts of lluvatar. It was the desire for the secret fire that destroyed Morgoth, and turned him into the first Dark Lord.Yes, this is the answer. I remember reading that part and going, "that's what Gandalf was talking about. Dumb ****."

[lavatory love machine]

since it seems to be a lot of tolkien experts here, define Anor and Udun

[uberP2themax]

http://florence.ghibellini.free.fr/obscur/Balrog/balrog1.jpg

BALROG'D!

[Red Beard]

Minas Anor: Original name of Minas Tirith

Udûn : The mysterious fire of the Balrogs and a valley in Mordor where arms were forged

http://www.quicksilver899.com/Tolkien/Tolkien_Dictionary.html

;)

[morroch]

Anor means sun.

[Legalos245]

The Balrogs originated as Maiar (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/maiar.html), beings of the same kind as Sauron (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/s/sauron.html) himself. They were primordial spirits of fire that had allied themselves with Melkor (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/melkor.html) in ancient times, and became the most feared of his servants, especially during the Wars of Beleriand (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/w/warsofbeleriand.html) in the First Age (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/f/firstage.html). Details of their numbers are hard to state with certainty, but there seem to have been relatively few of them - probably no more than seven.

In appearance, the Balrogs were man-like, but fire streamed from them, and they were swathed in dark shadows. They carried whips of flame and induced great terror in friends and foes alike. In the War of Wrath (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/w/warofwrath.html), Morgoth (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/morgoth.html) was assailed by the forces of the Valar (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/v/valar.html). Most of the Balrogs were destroyed in that War (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/w/warofwrath.html), but some few escaped over the Blue Mountains (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/b/bluemountains.html) and hid in Middle-earth (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/middleearth.html). Durin's Bane (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/d/durinsbane.html), the creature that drove the Dwarves (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/d/dwarves.html) from Moria (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/moria.html), was one of these.



That's straight from the Encyclopedia of Arda. Both Gandalf and the Balrog are Maiar. And as someone said before, the Flame of Anor is the great elven ring(given to him on his way to M.E. from Cirdan) which Sauron had made to try and deceive and destroy all the people of Middle-Earth.

[Thyrsos]

Celebrimbor made the three Elven rings, not Sauron. "His hand never touched them." Celebrimbor learned the art of ringmaking from Sauron when he was still known as Annatar ("lord of gifts")

[Delta-Cain]

From the ENcyclopedia of Arda:

" A Quenya (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/q/quenya.html) name formed from words vala, 'power' and rauko, 'demon'. The Valaraukar were the monstrous Maiar (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/maiar.html) that Melkor (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/melkor.html) took into his service, to become some of his most feared and dangerous servants. In Middle-earth (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/middleearth.html), their name was changed from the Quenya (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/q/quenya.html) form Valaraukar to the more familiar Sindarin (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/s/sindarin.html) form: Balrogs (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/b/balrogs.html)."


So, Balrog and Valaraukar are the same name, in different forms of Elvish. They were indeed Maia.

I know Tolkien. His ghost plays Uno with me twice a month. The bastard cheats a lot, though.


You should post more often.

[dragon_fly81]

since it seems to be a lot of tolkien experts here, define Anor and Udunhttp://www.glyphweb.com/arda/

Anything you could possibly want to know about Middle Earth.

[Legalos245]

Celebrimbor made the three Elven rings, not Sauron. "His hand never touched them." Celebrimbor learned the art of ringmaking from Sauron when he was still known as Annatar ("lord of gifts")

Ah yes, I forgot, that's why Sauron could not bring in or find the Three Elven Rings like the others.

[Oikeoir]

Celebrimbor and the Rings of Power



In the year 1200 of the Second Age (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?SecondAge), Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron) took a fair guise in which he was named Annatar (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Annatar), the Lord of Gifts, and attempted to beguile the Elves (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Elves) of Middle-earth (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Middle-earth). In Eregion (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Eregion), along the western edge of the Misty Mountains (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?MistyMountains), his service was accepted. A group of secretive Noldorin smiths called the Gwaith-i-Mírdain (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Gwaith-i-M%edrdain) had formed in Eregion (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Eregion), whose chief city was Ost-in-Edhil (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Ost-in-Edhil). These Elves (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Elves) learned greatly from the disguised Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron) (originally a Maia (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Maia) of Aulë (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Aul%eb), the Great Smith).



The Gwaith-i-Mírdain (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Gwaith-i-M%edrdain) soon came to great power, seizing control of Eregion (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Eregion) and growing to their highest levels of skill. Around the year 1500 of the Second Age (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?SecondAge), the Elves (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Elves) began the forging of the Rings of Power (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Rings__of__Power) with the aid and instruction of Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron). The Elves (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Elves) made many Rings, but at first they were merely lessons in the craft, lesser rings with neither great power nor peril. But the Greater Rings were both, powerful and perilous.

Sixteen Great Rings the Elves (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Elves) made with the aid of Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron): the Seven and the Nine, originally made for the Elves (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Elves), but later stolen by Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron) who gave Seven to Dwarves (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Dwarves) and Nine to Men (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Men). Yet in 1590 of the Second Age (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?SecondAge), the Three Rings (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?ThreeRings) were forged by Celebrimbor (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Celebrimbor) alone. Celebrimbor (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Celebrimbor) was the son of Curufin (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Curufin), and thus the grandson of Fëanor (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?F%ebanor), the greatest jewel-smith of all the Elves (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Elves) and maker of the Silmarilli. The Three Rings (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?ThreeRings) were never touched by Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron).

All of the Elven Rings were made with the motive of and central power of "prevention or slowing of decay (i.e. change viewed as a regrettable thing), the preservation of what is desired or loved, or its semblance" (Letters (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Letters) #131). This was primarily a good motive, yet it was still a desire for power over things, and thus not entirely pure. The Rings also increased the power of the bearers "thus approaching magic, a motive easily corruptible into evil, a lust for domination" (Letter 131). Finally, the Elves (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Elves)' motives came largely from a desire, embraced by Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron) in his guile, to create a version of the Undying Lands on Middle-earth (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Middle-earth). This "was really a veiled attack on the gods, an incitement to try and make a separate independent paradise" (Letters (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Letters) #131), where they would still have the nobility and power only achievable in Middle-earth (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Middle-earth). The Sixteen also bestowed powers of invisibility, entering the wraith world unseen by men, derived from Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron).

The Three were made with slightly different powers "directed to the preservation of beauty" (Letters (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Letters) #131). They were given the names Narya (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Narya), Nenya (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Nenya), and Vilya (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Vilya): the Rings of Fire, Water, and Air. They were used to heal the damages of evil and to prevent change and passage of time. And where the Three were used, they created "enchanted enclaves of peace where Time seems to stand still and decay is restrained, a semblance of the bliss of the True West" (Letters (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Letters) #131).

In the year 1600, Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron) forged the One Ring (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?OneRing), the Ruling Ring (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?RulingRing), in the fires at the heart of Orodruin (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Orodruin) (Mt. Doom). He poured into the Ring much of his own power and malice, and by externalizing his power, his power was enhanced while he wore the Ring, yet not diminished if the Ring was taken. But if the Ring was destroyed, which he never contemplated as possible, both because he wore the Ring and because the Ring was irresistible, as he saw it, he would be utterly vanquished and never able to rise again. Furthermore, he made the One Ring so that he could rule the other Rings and the minds of those who wore them. This included the Three, because although they were made by Celebrimbor (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Celebrimbor) alone, they were still the products of Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron)'s instruction, and thus were subject to the One.

When Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron) first put on the One Ring (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?OneRing), the Elves (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Elves) perceived his designs and took off their Rings. Celebrimbor (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Celebrimbor) sought the aid of Galadriel (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Galadriel) (after the Mírdain had seized control of Eregion (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Eregion) from her), and she counseled him to keep the Three Rings (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?ThreeRings) hidden. At that time he gave to Galadriel (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Galadriel) the Ring Nenya (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Nenya), and sent Vilya (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Vilya) and Narya (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Narya) to Gil-galad (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Gil-galad) in Lindon (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Lindon). Gil-galad (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Gil-galad) gave Narya (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Narya) to Círdan (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?C%edrdan) (either immediately or just before the Last Alliance (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?LastAlliance)) and then Vilya (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Vilya) to Elrond (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Elrond) at the time Rivendell (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Rivendell) was built as a refuge (about 1697 of the Second Age (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?SecondAge)).

However, Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron) became angered as they ruined his plan, so he attacked Eregion (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Eregion) with a great force. Elven defenses under Elrond (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Elrond) and Celeborn (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Celeborn) came to Eregion (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Eregion)'s aid, but Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron) could not be stopped at the time. He entered the House of the Mírdain, tortured Celebrimbor (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Celebrimbor) to find the location of the Rings. Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron) was able to seize the Seven and the Nine, as well as the lesser rings, but of the Three Celebrimbor (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Celebrimbor) would reveal nothing, even to his death, because they were his prized creation. However, Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron) correctly guessed that they would be with Galadriel (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Galadriel) and Gil-galad (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Gil-galad). Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron) turned his attack on Elrond (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Elrond)'s forces, and would have destroyed them had not the Dwarves (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Dwarves) of Moria (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Moria) assailed him from behind. Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron), though, continued to attack Eriador (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Eriador), until he was finally forced to return to Mordor (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Mordor) by Gil-galad (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Gil-galad)'s defenses at the Grey Havens (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?GreyHavens) and the arrival of a vast Númenorian armada under Tar-Minister? (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?action=browse&id=WelcomeVisitor&continue=Tar-Minister) in 1700 of the SecondAge (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?SecondAge).

Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron), thus, could not obtain the Three, but the Rings he had stolen back he dispersed again: Seven to the Dwarves (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Dwarves) and Nine to Men (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Men). The Seven did not have a great effect on the Dwarves (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Dwarves), for they could not be made into wraiths (so that the Rings' powers of invisibility and longevity did not affect them), nor could they be easily enslaved to another's will, as Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron) desired. The only effect the Rings had on the Dwarves (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Dwarves) was to increase their greed and production of gold, which did end up aiding Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron), as they became wrathful and reckless in hunt for treasure.

Men (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Men) had always been most subject to the deceits of the Enemy, so Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron) completely corrupted and enslaved those that used the Nine. Men (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Men) often used their Rings to enter the wraith world and become invisible, and they became great warriors and kings (though certainly not all were kings, nor were they kings of Númenor (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?N%famenor)). They gathered power and wealth; however, the Rings led to their downfall. As they used the Rings, they did not age, a gift of false immortality from the Enemy, and they stretched and faded until they were but shadows utterly enslaved to Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron). They became the Ringwraiths (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Ringwraiths), the Nazgûl (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Nazg%fbl), Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron)'s greatest servants. There is one last Ring that must be covered: Narya (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Narya), one of the Three, the Ring of Fire. When the Istari (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Istari), or Wizards (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Wizards), arrived in Middle-earth (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Middle-earth) in the Third Age (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?ThirdAge), Círdan (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?C%edrdan) gave Narya (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Narya) to Gandalf (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Gandalf), seeing him as the greatest and wisest, saying: "This is the Ring of Fire (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Ring__of__Fire), and herewith, maybe, thou shalt rekindle hearts to the valour of old in a world that grows chill" (The Silmarillion (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?The__Silmarillion), "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age"). Narya (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Narya) had been idle with Círdan (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?C%edrdan) at the Havens, but Gandalf (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Gandalf) would use it, indeed, to effect many great deeds in the Third Age (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?ThirdAge). Like all of the Three, it prevented weariness, but Gandalf (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Gandalf) followed Círdan (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?C%edrdan)'s words, becoming "the kindler" and inspiring people to do valiant deeds. Thus, his importance, although often unnoticeable, was supreme. Bilbo (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Bilbo) and Frodo (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Frodo) undertaking their quests, Théoden (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Th%e9oden)'s rise against Saruman (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Saruman) and Sauron (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Sauron), and Aragorn (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Aragorn)'s return as King, (which specifically is reminiscent of returning to the "valour of old"), all might have been accomplished partly through Gandalf (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Gandalf) and Narya (http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Narya)'s inspiration.

[BusterKeaton]

That actually clears a lot of things up

Thank you

[Hilary Swank]

The Secret Fire, the Flame of Anor refers to the Holy Spirit of God, that which give life to living things, the energy of creation, and that which Melkor sought for and failed to find before the creation of the World. Gandalf was essentially an angel that was sent to Middle-earth by God. You can read about it in the Silmarillion.

I'm not making this up. I figured this out years ago when I research Tolkien for a literature class.

[Hilary Swank]

LOL.

And "servant of the secret fire" might be a reference to lluvatar (god), not to Narya. It says in The Silmarillion that the "secret fire" (the desire and the ability to create things) is part of the thoughts of lluvatar. It was the desire for the secret fire that destroyed Morgoth, and turned him into the first Dark Lord. Correct.

[Kagan]

The Secret Fire, the Flame of Anor refers to the Holy Spirit of God, that which give life to living things, the energy of creation, and that which Melkor sought for and failed to find before the creation of the World. Gandalf was essentially an angel that was sent to Middle-earth by God. You can read about it in the Silmarillion.

I'm not making this up. I figured this out years ago when I research Tolkien for a literature class.
Swank, you're all right.