[Thyrsos]

In what ways is modern America (US) like Ancient Rome? I've found striking similarities, especially with Rome near the end of the Empire...

[Rebort]

More importantly, how did the Romans feel about cat de-clawing?

[Reaver]

Originally Posted by Rebort

More importantly, how did the Romans feel about cat de-clawing?

* snort *

[Traz]

I wonder when the "American Empire" will fall.


[half joking/]

[Christmas Eve Sarajevo]

Originally Posted by Rebort

More importantly, how did the Romans feel about cat de-clawing?

[Conductor 71]

Originally Posted by mozart1781

I wonder when the "American Empire" will fall.


[half joking/]

Wouldn't mind, if it looked like the British's and not the Roman's.

[Ifurita]

- Military and economic superpower, the only in its world.
- Large and cosmopolitan; many nationalities/ethnic groups.
- More politically representative than its neighbors*, but still a great imbalance of wealth and power.
- Naval dominance; controls trade and can move quickly anywhere.
- Keeps armies all over its empire; the US doesn't have enough soldiers to garrison everywhere it feels it needs to; neither did Rome.
- Expansion has created tension with many neighbors, too powerful to conquer, but still seen as problems (US: China, North Korea, Iran, Russia, EU?; Rome: Persians, Goths, Germans).
- Rapid expansion seems to have stopped; maybe the US has reached its limit too.
- Minorities attaining greater rights and greater power (Goths, Germans); state becoming more dependant on them to maintain a healthy economy.
- Spreading a "universal" language (English/Latin).
- Rome had colonies that they more of less directly controlled, but who did not have equal rights; the US has puppet states.
- Used to be a loose, decentralized republic, now an increasingly centralized, bureaucratic state; probably became necessary after growing so much.

There's probably a lot of others, but that's all I could think of.

* - This is very debatable, of course, but the US is still closer to a "democracy" than most of the world.

[oldladynevermore]

Originally Posted by Ifurita

- Military and economic superpower, the only in its world.
- Large and cosmopolitan; many nationalities/ethnic groups.
- More politically representative than its neighbors*, but still a great imbalance of wealth and power.
- Naval dominance; controls trade and can move quickly anywhere.
- Keeps armies all over its empire; the US doesn't have enough soldiers to garrison everywhere it feels it needs to; neither did Rome.
- Expansion has created tension with many neighbors, too powerful to conquer, but still seen as problems (US: China, North Korea, Iran, Russia, EU?; Rome: Persians, Goths, Germans).
- Rapid expansion seems to have stopped; maybe the US has reached its limit too.
- Minorities attaining greater rights and greater power (Goths, Germans); state becoming more dependant on them to maintain a healthy economy.
- Spreading a "universal" language (English/Latin).
- Rome had colonies that they more of less directly controlled, but who did not have equal rights; the US has puppet states.
- Used to be a loose, decentralized republic, now an increasingly centralized, bureaucratic state; probably became necessary after growing so much.

There's probably a lot of others, but that's all I could think of.

* - This is very debatable, of course, but the US is still closer to a "democracy" than most of the world.

The Goths were minorities in Rome too? Did they hang out in malls wearing black togas?

Seriously, it's been 2000 years. You Robert Smith types need to move on, y'know?

(I could say that both were divided by an emporer that tried to convert the entire society to Chrisianity, but I'll let someone else pick that fight)

[Ifurita]

Originally Posted by oldladynevermore

The Goths were minorities in Rome too? Did they hang out in malls wearing black togas?

I don't know that much about them, but sorta.

They migrated into Rome at some point between the transition to Empire and the coming of the Huns (probably around the 2nd-3rd century AD, I would guess), and they used to raid into Rome. Eventually, the Romans were able to bribe some of them by giving them land and jobs on the northern borders of the Empire, relying on them to keep anyone else away*. The Goths and Germans kept coming, began to outnumber the Romans in many places, and northern Rome eventually became dependant on them for protection against other Goths, Germans, and the Huns, since most Romans didn't want to become soldiers, whereas the "barbarians" did*. When Rome fell, the Goths and Germans just took advantage and overran the whole western half of the Empire.

* - Parallels to minorities in the military??

Seriously, it's been 2000 years. You Robert Smith types need to move on, y'know?

I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any means. I'm just answering the first post by thinking of ways in which they are similar, that's all.

I could have gone into symbolry too, but the Founding Fathers clearly intended for that to happen, so I don't think that counts.

(I could say that both were divided by an emporer that tried to convert the entire society to Chrisianity, but I'll let someone else pick that fight)

Except that America used to be almost exclusively Christian, and now it's becoming less so. It's more like if a reactionary emperor who still worshipped Jove and Apollo (did he have a Roman name?) tried to strengthen the old religion in the face of Christianty. Maybe some of them did that, I don't know.

[Shinjuku]

I believe the Germans didn't exist under that name during this time period, Infurita. In fact, I'm pretty sure they were the Visigoths and Vandals. In fact, "Germany" only came to exist after Prussia was broken up and it's western portions were merged with Bavaria, and this was sometime during the 19th Century.

When you read historic texts, the barbaric tribes of Western Europe are often called "Germans" because they evolved into that group and their culture was most retained there. But to name Goths and Germans side by side is an anachronism.

[Ifurita]

Originally Posted by Jabesq

I believe the Germans didn't exist under that name during this time period, Infurita. In fact, I'm pretty sure they were the Visigoths and Vandals. In fact, "Germany" only came to exist after Prussia was broken up and it's western portions were merged with Bavaria, and this was sometime during the 19th Century.

When you read historic texts, the barbaric tribes of Western Europe are often called "Germans" because they evolved into that group and their culture was most retained there. But to name Goths and Germans side by side is an anachronism.

Franks, Germans, something else, whatever. I don't know the proper technical term, since I've heard a lot of terms and little else.

Infurita

This joke is going on too long.

[Shinjuku]

Originally Posted by Ifurita

This joke is going on too long.

I just read it like that now. It has become a part of my subconcious.

[Dirty Harry Potter]

Originally Posted by Thyrsos

In what ways is modern America (US) like Ancient Rome? I've found striking similarities, especially with Rome near the end of the Empire...

Well, Dubya's college years certainly remind one of Caligula.

[Onik]

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry Potter

Well, Dubya's college years certainly remind one of Caligula.

I bet he fu</>cks horses too.

[Shinjuku]

Nero is to Christians as Bush is to Muslims.

Discuss.

[assgoblin85]

Originally Posted by Onik

Rowing commentator: "The Germans seem to have a superior race
plan." -Athens Olympics, 2004

[Dirty Harry Potter]

Originally Posted by Onik

I bet he ****s horses too.

Sure he does. Named one a consul too.

[RTMatee]

It just a matter of time when the Sleeping Giant will wake up, I'm predicting it will be in our lifetime.

BEHOLD THE NEXT SUPER POWER...

[Onik]

Originally Posted by RTMatee

It just a matter of time when the Sleeping Giant will wake up, I'm predicting it will be in our lifetime.

BEHOLD THE NEXT SUPER POWER...

I pray for the day. We need some goddam balance in this world.

But, you'd better pray that someone as beligerent as Bush isn't in the Whitehouse when they get there. If you think the Islamic people are fanatics, wait until you get on the wrong side of the Chinese.

[The End Eternal]

Originally Posted by Ifurita

- Military and economic superpower, the only in its world.
- Large and cosmopolitan; many nationalities/ethnic groups.
- More politically representative than its neighbors*, but still a great imbalance of wealth and power.
- Naval dominance; controls trade and can move quickly anywhere.
- Keeps armies all over its empire; the US doesn't have enough soldiers to garrison everywhere it feels it needs to; neither did Rome.
- Expansion has created tension with many neighbors, too powerful to conquer, but still seen as problems (US: China, North Korea, Iran, Russia, EU?; Rome: Persians, Goths, Germans).
- Rapid expansion seems to have stopped; maybe the US has reached its limit too.
- Minorities attaining greater rights and greater power (Goths, Germans); state becoming more dependant on them to maintain a healthy economy.
- Spreading a "universal" language (English/Latin).
- Rome had colonies that they more of less directly controlled, but who did not have equal rights; the US has puppet states.
- Used to be a loose, decentralized republic, now an increasingly centralized, bureaucratic state; probably became necessary after growing so much.

There's probably a lot of others, but that's all I could think of.

* - This is very debatable, of course, but the US is still closer to a "democracy" than most of the world.

You forgot they heavy indoctrination, use, and allowance of homosexuality.

[The End Eternal]

Originally Posted by Jabesq

Nero is to Christians as Bush is to Muslims.

Discuss.

I doubt Nero funded roman churches to accept the christian faith.

The Bush admin got millions together to provide the fuller church with funds in order to promote tolerance and unification of muslims.

[Kizmo]

With "reality TV" we now have our gladiators too. "The tribe votes you thumbs down..."

Kiz

[Thyrsos]

Ifurita makes some good points. Anyone remember this bird?

[HoboJoe]

Two words: American Gladiators

[Thyrsos]

I've been watching the whole series of I, Claudius with Derek Jacobi. It looks like Rome went to hell in a handbasket after Augustus (Octavius) died. Tiberius was a paranoid fascist and then Caligula, (yeeesh). He may not have had the body count of some other Emporers, but he sure takes the psycho cake: Declaring himself a living god, marrying his sister. John Hurt was at his best. John Rhys-Davies and Patrick Stewart put in good performances in full Roman military regalia. Three more videos to go...

[wertham]

"They're both in ruins."'

(Yeah, I know: that was a bit TOO obvious.)

Caligula Redivivus

[wertham]

Originally Posted by Jabesq

I believe the Germans didn't exist under that name during this time period, Infurita. In fact, I'm pretty sure they were the Visigoths and Vandals. In fact, "Germany" only came to exist after Prussia was broken up and it's western portions were merged with Bavaria, and this was sometime during the 19th Century.

When you read historic texts, the barbaric tribes of Western Europe are often called "Germans" because they evolved into that group and their culture was most retained there. But to name Goths and Germans side by side is an anachronism.

wickipedia sez:

Regarding the question of ethnic origins, evidence developed by both archaeologists and linguists suggests that a people or group of peoples sharing a common material culture dwelt in northwestern Germany and southern Scandinavia during the late European Bronze Age (1000-500 B.C.E.). This culture group is called the Nordic Bronze Age. The long presence of Germanic tribes in southern Scandinavia (a Proto-Indo-European language probably arrived ca 2000 B.C.) is also testified by a lack of pre-Germanic place names. This cultural grouping, which emerges and spreads, without sudden breaks, can be distinguished from the culture of the Celts inhabiting the more southerly Danube and Alpine regions during the same period. Cultural features at that time included small, independent settlements and an economy strongly based on the keeping of livestock.

Linguists, working backwards from historically-known Germanic languages, suggest that this group spoke proto-Germanic, a distinct branch of the Indo-European language family.

Many details of early movement and change within this group remain obscure, but by the late 2nd century, B.C.E., Roman authors recount, Gaul, Italy and Spain were invaded by migrating Germanic tribes, culminating in military conflict with the armies of republican Rome. Julius Caesar, six decades later, invoked the threat of such attacks as one justification for his annexation of Gaul to Rome. By the 1st century of the Common Era, the writings of Caesar, Tacitus and other Roman and Mediterranean writers indicate a division of Germanic-speaking peoples into tribal groupings centred on:

* the rivers Oder and Vistula (Poland) (East Germanic tribes),
* the lower Rhine river (Istvaeones),
* the river Elbe (Irminones),
* Jutland and the Danish islands (Ingvaeones).

The Istvaeones, Irminones, and Ingvaeones are collectively called West Germanic tribes. In addition to this those Germanic people who remained in Scandinavia are referred to as North Germanic. These groups all developed separate dialects, the basis for the differences among Germanic languages down to the present day.

As Rome advanced her borders to the Rhine and Danube, incorporating many Celtic societies into the Empire, the tribal homelands to the north and east emerged collectively in the records as Germania, whose peoples were sometimes at war with the Empire but who also engaged in complex and long-term trade relations, military alliances and cultural exchanges with their neighbours to the south.