[Katarhal]

A buddy and I were having a conversation the other night. He said that had the Vatican publicly spoken out against the Holocaust, sooner, then the dynamics of the war would have changed dramatically.

Now I (who does not come from a Catholic background), responded: Bull****! The Vatican wouldn't be able to muster enough influence for all but the most marginal changes.

My buddy then said: Wrong. As Italy is predominantly Roman Catholic, the Italians would have hung on the Pope's every word - whose weight was signifcantly greater than that of Mussolini. The Italians would have rebelled against Benito and the Axis Powers would have been down by one.

So my question is: If the Vatican spoke out against the Holocaust sooner, would this have made a greater change in the evolution of the war, or do you think the difference (if any) would have been minimal?

[kuddles]

I doubt the Vatican would have told the Italians to go to war against their own leaders, regardless of how they got into power. Besides, there were tons of voices speaking out against the atrocities, but few paying attention.

The blame (and when I say blame, I mean excluding Hitler) lies not with the Vatican speaking out sooner, but with actual nations not giving a damn.

[HAMMEROGOD]

Your question opens a bundle of snakes that has yet to be addressed fully by the Vatican.

I can't fully answer the question...but I feel that a strong stance by the Papal authourity would have had a major impact on events related to the Holocaust.

The vatican simply dropped the ball in an attempt to keep the German people in the fold....alienating Hitler would have closed Germany to ANY Papal influence.
It was a bad call....but only in hindsight(?).

I do wish some others would give better information.
I am looking for related web sites..I know that I have read several very interesting slants on it..but I am too lazy today to do much research.

[Katarhal]

Fair enough.

I'm not looking so much for information, as I am on people's opinions on the matter. I'm not knowledgeable enough on either Catholicism nor World War II to render an intelligent opinion one way or the other.

[King Ralph]

If the Vatican would have spoken out, and it should have saved the life of one, it would have been better.

But knowing and not saying anything is unforgiveable.

[PeekingDuck]

I think it would have had some effect. Don't underestimate the World's most predominant religion. Maybe a bunch of crazies but even crazies can have an impact.

[Antoine]

Most Italians didn't like Mussolini anyway, so if they were gonna rebel, they shouldn't have needed the pope to tell them to do it. Even so, Italy was easily the weakest member of the Axis powers. Mussolini was in fact overthrown by his own Grand Fascist Council, who then worked towards surrendering, but the Germans took over and reinstated Mussolini (as a puppet).

[Ivan the Terrible]

Victor Emmanuel II annexed the Papal States in 1870 in his drive to unify Italy, ending Papal rule over a large chunk of the country. When Pius XI refused to take the loss graciously and called for Catholic aid in driving the king from Rome, his successors were still impotently waiting for help decades later. Eventually, the ignored Papacy gave up and accepted the loss of territory.

This isn't the Middle Ages; the Pope can condemn to his heart's desire and a lot of nominal Catholics will still completely ignore him. In this case, Pius XI publically condemned the Nazi racial ideology prior to the war....and German and Italian Catholics both still fought for their respective countries. Nationalism was the key determinant of the age, not religion.