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Forums > Video Games > General Video Game Discussion > Manic Shmup Insanity Celebration Stage 3!

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  #1  
Old 04-28-2005, 04:21 PM
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Manic Shmup Insanity Celebration Stage 3!

DonPachi
Cave/Atlus 1995


The ROM can be downloaded here.



This is Cave's first shoot-em-up (as well as DonDonPachi's predecessor). In most ways DonPachi just plays like a simpler DDP. But it's interesting as sort of a transitional piece in the manic shmup subgenre. It is also a fun game in its own right.



The graphics aren't remotely as nice as what you find in DDP or ESP Ra.De., but believe it or not the hardware used is almost identical. It still has that detailed Cave visual style, just scaled back. Whether the later quality jump was more because of programming (ie algorithmic) improvements, cheaper prices for larger ROM chips, better (or more experienced) artists, and/or just longer developmental periods is unclear. Probably a mixture of most of those factors.

The music takes a more orchestral approach than DDP's rock music - it's good stuff, but unfortunately it is a little muffled. Surprisingly the game features some fairly decent English from your very cool 'navigator'.



Manic shmups were a fairly new genre during this time period and a lot of its eventual conventions were still being figured out by developers. DonPachi is a superb example of this.

It starts off similar to older non-manic vertical shmups like Raiden. Very few attackers come at once, shot patterns are simple (no real bullet storms), and just kind of a leisurely pace in general. The first boss starts to seem vaguely manic, but then it's back to a stroll in the next level. The game gradually gets harder and somewhere in the third stage is where it really turns into a true manic shmup. Storms of fast bullets will be fired at you, scores of enemy fighters will rush you, destruction is ever present. Not surprisingly it starts to feel a lot like DDP!

(The second loop is also pretty interesting. Total manic action.)



One of the interesting directions Cave took with DonPachi is to make fighters slamming into you (especially from behind) a major threat. I personally find this very frustrating, and apparently someone at Cave did too. DonPachi is their first and (AFAIK) last release to feature this so prominently. Like I mentioned already, shmup developers were obviously still experimenting with what works well in a manic shoot-em-up. Other manic devs do make use of this however...



Basic Gameplay Mechanics:
You can probably guess what I am going to say, but it plays a lot like a simpler version of DoDonPachi. There are two attack buttons, second one being a bomb. You can laser by holding down the shot button (and a bomb during that will laser bomb), though you can't choose between laser and shot ship types. Holding down fire makes your ship slow down. You've really seen this all before.

There are three ship types. Do I need to explain how they are different anymore?

Scoring is pretty simple compared to later Cave games. There is a combo system in place that is similar to DDP but less refined. The meter doesn't even appear until you start destroying a lot of enemies in a short period. AFAIK there is no boss combo mechanic present. Hidden bees are around, 13 in every level. If you get all of them without dying (activated through hitting them with the start of a laser shot) the last one is apparently worth a million points!

DonPachi is easier than ESP Ra.De. or DDP. But a lot of the death's you suffer are considerably cheaper than what you find in those games (especially from those damn kamikaze attackers!). That makes me bump up the difficulty rating a little higher than it would be if the game was fair. Your hitbox is small but still bigger than DDP, etc. But in the manic shmup genre even this small change makes a huge difference to your odds!

An important thing to note is you automatically go to a second loop once you have beaten the game. This was pretty common with older shmups. It's a lot harder. And yes, there is a 'hidden' super boss at the end of this second loop.



Difficulty Level: Normal

As always, if you need help getting this working the main thread here is your best bet.


Last edited by DeadScreenSky; 04-28-2005 at 04:42 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-28-2005, 04:46 PM
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Awsome, I like this one alot more than it's predesessor: DoDonPichi.

-I like how they cleaned up the speed of your movment when holding down the fire button.
-The panny of the camera to incorporate more of the level(side to side) is a nice touch, gives more of that "flying" feeling, makes me feel more into it.
-The narrator is a nice touch .
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Old 04-28-2005, 04:49 PM
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little did they know(apon making it) we will be able to pause the screen
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  #4  
Old 04-28-2005, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Down+Diagonal+Right+PP
Awsome, I like this one alot more than it's predesessor: DoDonPichi.

-I like how they cleaned up the speed of your movment when holding down the fire button.
-The panny of the camera to incorporate more of the level(side to side) is a nice touch, gives more of that "flying" feeling, makes me feel more into it.
-The narrator is a nice touch .
I mostly agree, but this game actually came before DoDonPachi. It is Cave's first shmup.

(And I want to point out I didn't censor that awesome boss warning message. Hilarious stuff!)
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  #5  
Old 04-28-2005, 05:12 PM
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BONUS GAME:
Batsugun Special Ver.

Toaplan 1993


The ROM can be downloaded here.
You will need this ROM too.




By all rights Batsugun should be one of the main 'normal' shmups of the MSIC. It is widely credited with being the first manic shmup. It is shoot-em-up pioneer Toaplan's last game - in fact the 'Special Ver.' that is being focused on here was never even actually released. It's an awesome game - lots and lots of fun.

The emulation also completely sucks and probably always will.
(That is the reason why this is stuck in bonus game territory.)



Gameplay emulation is more or less perfect. The video emulation is close to perfect, but you will notice some weird errors (especially in the first level). But the sound is terrible, with no music and most of the sound effects just aren't present. Because of how this data was stored in the arcade boards (in an encrypted CPU, IIRC) it will probably always remain at this state, too.

Luckily there is a perfect Japanese Sega Saturn port of this game. I highly recommend it if you can find it.



This Special Ver. of Batsugun is a revision that was only revealed at the AOU (Arcade Operator's Union) show in Japan before Toaplan went bankrupt. It makes some interesting changes to Batsugun, so I recommend you try both games out. Special Ver.'s biggest changes are to 'create' two manic shmup essential qualities:
1. Your hitbox is really tiny. Probably smaller than what you find in DDP, even.
2. Bombs are basically instant use weapons. This makes them much better as a last-second save. Compare this to older Raiden-style games, with a long delay before your bomb does its thing.

Some of the Toaplan designers of this game went on to become the key members of Cave. That makes a comparison between this and DonPachi to be really interesting, IMO. In some ways Batsugun is actually more of a manic shmup than DonPachi is. I also personally enjoy it more (probably because the intensity starts earlier, whereas I don't find DonPachi to be too exciting until the third level), though both are great shoot-em-ups.



Basic Gameplay Mechanics:

Extremely simple gameplay here, consisting of autoshot and bomb. Your movement doesn't even slow down while firing. Very similar to Darius Gaiden in many ways - the power-up system is actually closer to that game then the Cave shmups that would follow. It takes a long time to reach high weapon power, but when you do it is beyond vicious.

Scoring system is simple too. A fancy wrinkle is the 'bonus pigs' you will occasionally find - keep your ship on top of them and they will celebrate, your score getting a steady boost as long as you stay there. Very similar to the flowers in DDP, which I trickily didn't mention until now. :P

There is a second loop in this game as well.
Things get pretty crazy with the shot patterns. Like DonPachi, you automatically get to this loop just by beating the 'last' level.



Difficulty Level: Easy (your hitbox is insanely tiny)

Last edited by DeadScreenSky; 04-30-2005 at 06:07 PM.
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  #6  
Old 04-28-2005, 06:27 PM
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I have the port of DonPachi for my Saturn. It plays really well on that, and I love it. But now I wanna look for an ISO of Batsugun Sp. Ed. for it too... didn't know there was a port... must find... BTW, any self respecting shmup fan should own a Saturn, especially since it's so easy to play Jap. games on the US console
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  #7  
Old 04-28-2005, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadScreenSky
BONUS GAME:
Batsugun Special Ver.

Toaplan 1993

Gameplay emulation is more or less perfect. The video emulation is close to perfect, but you will notice some weird errors (especially in the first level). But the sound is terrible, with no music and most of the sound effects just aren't present. Because of how this data was stored in the arcade boards (in an encrypted CPU, IIRC) it will probably always remain at this state, too.
Meh, I don't even play with the sound turned on usually, so no big deal. I'm, really liking this one. I especially like the leveling aspect, although I don't understand what difference grapping the 'P' Icon makes once you reached 2nd level and beyond, it doesn't seemt o add to firepower.
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  #8  
Old 04-29-2005, 12:25 AM
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Easy!?

EDIT:hmm, I guess it is.

Last edited by Down+Diagonal+Right+PP; 04-29-2005 at 12:26 AM.
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  #9  
Old 04-29-2005, 01:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNOman
BTW, any self respecting shmup fan should own a Saturn, especially since it's so easy to play Jap. games on the US console
Definitely.

Though my understanding is the DonPachi (as well as DDP) console port is actually better on the PS1. Needless to say, this is extremely unusual, but that's the word. A shame neither game ever got a budget US release like some shmups did in the PS1's twilight.
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  #10  
Old 04-29-2005, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingrin
Meh, I don't even play with the sound turned on usually, so no big deal. I'm, really liking this one. I especially like the leveling aspect, although I don't understand what difference grapping the 'P' Icon makes once you reached 2nd level and beyond, it doesn't seemt o add to firepower.
No sound?? I love shmup sounds. Man, some gamers are weird!

If you look closely at the screen captures you can actually see the change it makes to the shots. They do get bigger and more powerful as you gradually level them up. I'm not sure what the max level is though.

Last edited by DeadScreenSky; 04-29-2005 at 01:26 AM.
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  #11  
Old 04-29-2005, 11:32 AM
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Don Pachi is fun fun fun. Much more manageable than the insane sequel.

I hate that announcer though.

"Thanks for playing this game. Bye!"

I'm saving the world dammit. It's not a game.
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  #12  
Old 04-29-2005, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morris Schæffer
Don Pachi is fun fun fun. Much more manageable than the insane sequel.

I hate that announcer though.

"Thanks for playing this game. Bye!"

I'm saving the world dammit. It's not a game.
I really think Dodonpachi is superior in everyway.

It seems Donpachi is boring after playing its sequel
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  #13  
Old 04-29-2005, 05:22 PM
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Any more for us DSS?
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Old 04-29-2005, 05:25 PM
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Any more for us DSS?
Absolutely. In a couple hours probably.
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Old 04-29-2005, 08:51 PM
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Having some minor problems with my list. I decided I really don't want to feature the game I had planned today just yet, so I think I will prep tomorrow's choice instead. Another 'normal' manic shmup after two of them is probably too much of the same. Time to bring out a weirdo.
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  #16  
Old 04-29-2005, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadScreenSky
(...that awesome boss warning message. Hilarious stuff!)
Signature: altered.
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Old 04-29-2005, 09:10 PM
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TARGET FOR THE WEAK POINTS OF F**KIN' MACHINE.

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Old 04-29-2005, 09:47 PM
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Change Air Blade
Sammy 1999



The ROM can be downloaded here.



I feel that this is tied with Twinkle Star Sprites as most unusual game of the MSIC. In addresses a similar 'problem': how do you make a competitive shmup? It takes a more conventional shooter approach than Twinkle Star Sprites' puzzle-game mechanics, but that makes it play even weirder. One player is at the bottom of the screen, the other player at the top, and they shoot the crap out of each other.



It's a little trickier than that, naturally. The player at the bottom of the screen plays sort of a conventional shmup role. Fast and manueverable fighter, no weapons truly that powerful, a need to collect bonuses and power-up items, and an ability to use bombs (along with other more specialized single use weapons). The top player essentially takes the role of a boss enemy. They get fighter waves to help them out, an ability to launch various bullet storms, and even the chance to power up and transform into a huge boss weapon.

Each level just consists of one of these duels, much like a fighting game.



This is a really obscure shmup. I don't think it had a particularly large release in Japanese arcades and it was never released in other countries. The graphics and sound are all servicible though unexceptional (for a laugh, check out the hardware specs it runs on when you boot it up in MAME). This is a game that lives and dies solely on its innovative gameplay approach. It really shows the weird and interesting places you can go by twisting an established genre in unusual ways.

As it is a two player game, this is much better played with friends (even moreso than Twinkle Star Sprites, which had a very funny story mode at least).



Basic Game Mechanics:

I'll be honest in that I haven't really figured this game out as much as I wish. Just knowledge of this game on the internet is rare enough, and I haven't managed to find any translated instructions or anything like that. So most of this is just educated guesses on my part. In particular I know almost nothing about being the top fighter.

So I'll start with the bottom player. You get a shot button of course. Holding this down does a form of autofire that is actually a stronger weapon but also dramatically slows you down. Second button fires a bomb - these are built up much like how they are in Battle Garegga. Third button uses whichever special item you last grabbed (you can queue these).

All of the fighters have different general qualities. Unfortunately the game doesn't let you know this before you choose them. Basically the ones with spread shots are slower - you know the drill. But even bombs and item usage changes depending on what character you use. (I found the red ship to be a good choice - nice and fast, which helps grab items better.)

The two players take damage differently depending on what position they are in. Both of them get three life bars. The conventional shmup player at the bottom loses a whole life bar everytime they are hit (exception: the primary gun of the boss takes away life gradually). The boss fighter health is slowly ticked down. Shooting them makes items and bonus medals pour out.

There is an invisible wall in the middle of the screen. Neither player can cross this through conventional means, but occasionally an item will appear that will switch player positions. The conventional player becomes the boss and vice versa. I'm not sure if this item is random or triggered intentionally somehow.

I would maybe turn down the difficulty because this is one of those games where you have to restart the level if you continue. In this game you have to do this through dip switches (not the F2 bios service menu we normally see) - just hit tab and select the dip switch option to change it (you will need to reset the game then).

I wish I could explain the game mechanics better, but I just don't entirely understand them enough to do so. You all should be able to get the hang of it in a few games though.

Potentially we could figure out a way to play this over the internet with each other, but I admit I am not good with that Kaillera stuff.



Difficulty Level: Normal (but really this isn't comparable to the other games - it is a very different type of difficulty)
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  #19  
Old 04-30-2005, 05:07 AM
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Here's my latest Don Pachi score. I'm MS.
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Let the Right One In (08) - Hair-raising, remarkably sensitive Swedish horror. [****]
X-Men Origins: Wolverine (09) - Decent action, but backstory's a snoozer. [
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Drag Me to Hell (09) - Formulaic & not nearly demented enough. [
*1/2]
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Old 04-30-2005, 12:42 PM
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Playing DonPachi is weird - The hitbox is so ****ing huge.
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Old 04-30-2005, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwakura-Lain
Playing DonPachi is weird - The hitbox is so ****ing huge.
The announcer owns all sorts of bootays though.
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Old 04-30-2005, 05:55 PM
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Ah, I have some catching up to do Thank you for bringing us the third stage, DSS! Another quality-filled thread for our pleasure.
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Old 04-30-2005, 08:10 PM
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I think I might be swarming you all with shmups a little too fast so I am going to wait a little longer to post the next game.

How are people liking CAB?

(And maybe later I'll try and see what kind of score I can get in DonPachi.)

Last edited by DeadScreenSky; 04-30-2005 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 05-01-2005, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadScreenSky
I think I might be swarming you all with shmups a little too fast so I am going to wait a little longer to post the next game.

How are people liking CAB?

(And maybe later I'll try and see what kind of score I can get in DonPachi.)
CAB is pretty odd... I like it, but it's kinda overwhelming with the number of things the enemy drops... don't know which are worth risking for and which aren't... gonna have to play this one a bit more to get the hang of it...
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  #25  
Old 05-02-2005, 10:37 AM
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My favorite Shmups Update.
In order from most favorite to least.

-ESP Ra. De.-And all around awsome shmup, worthy of being my most favorite. Many things to expand upon and very fun.

DoDonPachi-Just missing my first place by very little, i think what did it for me was that there was no thrid button, ESP RA. DE. had a little more to do when it came down to it. Not to mention the sive of that hitbox

Batsugun-With an almost non-existant hitbox, doing good is fun.

DonPachi-Not as good as it's sequel and lacking some "energy" when it comes to the game-play but none the less is better than XEXEX.

XEXEX-I don't really like this game, the awkward worlds, the odd boss fights, and constant barrage of tiny little colord things slowly decreasing your LIFE BAR, making you wonder if you are doing well or not, make this my least favorite. Not to mention thise is a side view shmup and they arn't very high on my list.


I have a request for a shmup(not sure if it is on mame or not) that is very realistic, being that you are a fighter plane. You gain money as well as points through out the level and at the end of every one you are given the option to purchase weapons, armor, or anything else that can enhance your plane in the next round. I played it many of years ago so i was just wondering if anyone knows the name of it. When you are shot down there is a little cut scene, I don't know if that helps.
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  #26  
Old 05-02-2005, 12:08 PM
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Is it UN Squadron? (Area 88)
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Old 05-02-2005, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Down+Diagonal+Right+PP
I have a request for a shmup(not sure if it is on mame or not) that is very realistic, being that you are a fighter plane. You gain money as well as points through out the level and at the end of every one you are given the option to purchase weapons, armor, or anything else that can enhance your plane in the next round. I played it many of years ago so i was just wondering if anyone knows the name of it. When you are shot down there is a little cut scene, I don't know if that helps.
If it's a PC game (non-mame) it sounds like either Raptor: Call of the Shadows or Tyrain. Probably Raptor, because of the fighter plane thing. Tyrain had a spaceship.
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  #28  
Old 05-02-2005, 09:45 PM
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Delta-Cain Delta-Cain is offline
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I played DonPachi, Darius (both versions) and DoDonPachi over the weekend. I prefer DDP to DP for a couple of reasons. In DDP it seems like you start out with more powerful weapons. Also, the smaller hit box makes DDP easier for me than DP. The announcer is cool though.

Darius was entertaining, but too hard to be fun. The black hole bombs were very cool though.

There's a game on MAME called Carrier Air Wing that sounds like the one Down+Diagonal+Right+PP asked about. I wouldn't call it realistic though, but the graphics are pretty good. It's a horizontal scroller, rather than vertical.

I'll download Batsugun, since it sound like it will be fun.
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  #29  
Old 05-02-2005, 09:48 PM
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DeadScreenSky DeadScreenSky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta-Cain
There's a game on MAME called Carrier Air Wing that sounds like the one Down+Diagonal+Right+PP asked about. I wouldn't call it realistic though, but the graphics are pretty good. It's a horizontal scroller, rather than vertical.
Carrier Air Wing is actually the sequel to Area 88 (AKA UN Squadron). So it very well could be.

And I still have a game to post. I need to prep this stuff better, so when I am busy I can post it anyway. Oh well. Give me a couple hours.
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  #30  
Old 05-02-2005, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Down+Diagonal+Right+PP
My favorite Shmups Update.
In order from most favorite to least.
I would pretty much agree. I would put Battle Garegga on the list after Batsugun personally.

Quote:
XEXEX-I don't really like this game, the awkward worlds, the odd boss fights, and constant barrage of tiny little colord things slowly decreasing your LIFE BAR, making you wonder if you are doing well or not, make this my least favorite. Not to mention thise is a side view shmup and they arn't very high on my list.
Your life bar comment is very astute. It does make it sort of lose some....hmm, impact perhaps.
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